Coronavirus III

dusty7 wrote:https://www.thecut.com/amp/2020/11/covid-19-pandemic-kids-mental-health.html?__twitter_impression=true

And some people think that keeping kids locked out of school is just a minor inconvenience and helping exacerbate the problem.  If this article doesn't make you sick than you have a problem  These decisions are ruining the future for millions of kid and setting these kids back in development.  

It's easy for us to make decisions based upon what is seen, positive tests, hospitalizations, and deaths, but very difficult to understand the impact on what is not seen. Call me a science and data denier if you want to but kids need to be able to be kids and have school, sports, and a social life and some of the current policies do nothing to help the youth.  

To piggyback off that comment, you know we've over scared kids when it's necessary to say this-

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/11/20/covid-19-and-christmas-santa-immune-coronavirus-fauci-says/3777871001/

dusty7 wrote:https://www.thecut.com/amp/2020/11/covid-19-pandemic-kids-mental-health.html?__twitter_impression=true

And some people think that keeping kids locked out of school is just a minor inconvenience and helping exacerbate the problem.  If this article doesn't make you sick than you have a problem  These decisions are ruining the future for millions of kid and setting these kids back in development.  

It's easy for us to make decisions based upon what is seen, positive tests, hospitalizations, and deaths, but very difficult to understand the impact on what is not seen. Call me a science and data denier if you want to but kids need to be able to be kids and have school, sports, and a social life and some of the current policies do nothing to help the youth.  

A couple of added points:
1. I think you are spot on with this and your feelings coach. I've been complimentary of some of the things our state government has done during this pandemic; however, this is a huge one I think this administration has dropped the ball on. There's definitely a lot of science out there to prove that kids should at the minimum, be in school part of the time and playing sports is not as big of a concern as what some say it is. Science and facts back that up. Our government has done very little to try to reach across the line and lift up our young people and the teachers for that matter during this time.

2. My wife and I had a very interesting discussion the other day; we are in a small community with many small business owners. The hair dresser that we take our kids to for hair cuts and my wife goes, got COVID last week; she's in the hospital but doing okay. Point being, my kids had been to her about a week before she fell ill. They're in the clear, but it brought up a good discussion. First, she wore a mask as did everyone in her shop; I have no idea what she did in her spare time but her shop was abiding by the regulations. As of yesterday, they remained open...why? They can't afford to close. She has 5 chairs in her place, has a family with 3 small kids, and her husband works for FS in Farina. They are the poster child for middle class. If she closes, how does she pay her mortgage...her employees...if she can't pay them will they leave? Then talk turns to stimulus bill; I said, listen, I'm all for a stimulus bill...but I can understand why the Senate is hesitant to throw money around again...I know of MANY businesses just in our area that got bail out loans when they didn't need them. This gal got very little because the money basically ran out.

Bottom line I guess is it's a mess and has been mishandled on many levels throughout, both by Dems and Reps.

Head Idiot wrote:

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:

lefty120 wrote:
When people in your community die and some can't get the care they need because the hospitals are to full, then it's wearing blinders?  So the local Dr.'s, many of whom are trusted, are lying hoping that their patients die so a political narrative can be trumpeted?  That's an awfully disrespectful thing to say.

Maybe I'm woefully ignorant of the US hospitals' ability to handle patients, but is the system that small that 85,000 people is overwhelming it? That's .02% of the population.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/24/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/

I think it needs considering that 85,000 is a reasonable number...when just considering COVID patients.  How many people are in hospitals receiving other types of care not COVID related?  I don't know, but I'd say that is what is stressing the system.  And again, as stated earlier, it's not all about how many patients or beds are available...you need staff to work those available beds.  That is where many hospitals are falling short.  If a COVID patient is going to be hospitalized, it's likely they will be or are already on a ventilator.  Even if they're not, respiratory therapy takes a certain type of care that not all areas have available to them.  

Weren't a lot of that staff laid off in the first round of this because the hospitals were so empty?

I think you're right coach...I'd be interested to see where those layoffs occurred. Speaking for our area of the state, we saw VERY little COVID activity here in the spring and summer. Like 1-5 cases a day in many counties. Now, it's blowing up horribly. Would those layoffs had occurred in similar areas like ours that didn't see that huge spike in the spring and summer? I'm not sure...but if I had to guess that may be part of it. And yes, I saw the same statistics. Crazy times that leave really only one guarantee...there's no guarantees about anything.

dusty7 wrote:https://www.thecut.com/amp/2020/11/covid-19-pandemic-kids-mental-health.html?__twitter_impression=true

And some people think that keeping kids locked out of school is just a minor inconvenience and helping exacerbate the problem.  If this article doesn't make you sick than you have a problem  These decisions are ruining the future for millions of kid and setting these kids back in development.  

It's easy for us to make decisions based upon what is seen, positive tests, hospitalizations, and deaths, but very difficult to understand the impact on what is not seen. Call me a science and data denier if you want to but kids need to be able to be kids and have school, sports, and a social life and some of the current policies do nothing to help the youth.  

Count me among those who do not want to keep kids locked out of school.  

However, I feel that private schools and public school districts need to be even more flexible and do more out of the box thinking during a pandemic like this.  For example, for most of the summer, school was not in session during a period of relative calm in relation to the virus (at least it was that way in Illinois).  Kids could have been in school at that time.  Sure, it would have interrupted family's summer plans.  It would have been an inconvenience.  But it's a paneffingdemic.  Many of those summer plans were interrupted by the pandemic anyway. I understand that hindsight is 20/20, but let's not forget that this current wave/surge was long ago predicted by most public health and infectious disease experts.

Schools were shut down by executive order last spring, but there is no such order this fall and the daily new case numbers are substantially worse now than they were then (note the correct usage of than and then).   So, again, I have to pose the "how bad does it have to be" question:  How bad does the pandemic have to be before we bite the bullet and shut down schools?  How many new daily confirmed cases per 100K of population do there need to be and/or how bad do the hospitalization numbers need to be before we say enough already?  What's the pandemic pain threshold past which a district (or the state) reaches the conclusion that the public health benefits of closing outweigh the negative impacts that closing school have on mental health and child development?  Or do we say that in person school moves forward no matter how bad it gets?  

And, if we do not shut down schools, then be prepared for teachers' unions to have a thing or two to say or do about that.

ramblinman wrote:
Count me among those who do not want to keep kids locked out of school.  

However, I feel that private schools and public school districts need to be even more flexible and do more out of the box thinking during a pandemic like this.  For example, for most of the summer, school was not in session during a period of relative calm in relation to the virus (at least it was that way in Illinois).  Kids could have been in school at that time.

Maybe I'm wrong, but weren't you the guy telling us how schools should stay shut because all those kids would spread it everywhere? They'd end up killing grandma and grandpa if they went back? Didn’t you tell us one of the reasons Chicago wasn't getting hit early on in the 2nd wave was because they weren't going to school?

Head Idiot wrote:Maybe I'm wrong, but weren't you the guy telling us how schools should stay shut because all those kids would spread it everywhere? They'd end up killing grandma and grandpa if they went back? Didn’t you tell us one of the reasons Chicago wasn't getting hit early on in the 2nd wave was because they weren't going to school?

I don't know about ramblinman, but I was one of those that was saying that It made sense to close the schools in the spring for exactly those reasons.

Nobody knew any better in the spring. It made sense to err on the side of caution. I was wrong. Schools should have stayed open then and should be open now.

But it's not the Governor that is closing them now...it's your local school board, and while I and the Governor were wrong in the Spring, it was because we didn't know any better.

Head Idiot wrote:

ramblinman wrote:
Count me among those who do not want to keep kids locked out of school.  

However, I feel that private schools and public school districts need to be even more flexible and do more out of the box thinking during a pandemic like this.  For example, for most of the summer, school was not in session during a period of relative calm in relation to the virus (at least it was that way in Illinois).  Kids could have been in school at that time.

Maybe I'm wrong, but weren't you the guy telling us how schools should stay shut because all those kids would spread it everywhere? They'd end up killing grandma and grandpa if they went back? Didn’t you tell us one of the reasons Chicago wasn't getting hit early on in the 2nd wave was because they weren't going to school?

You aren't wrong.  I have changed my mind on this issue.  Is that okay, or would you respect me more if I remained closed minded and pig headed about it?

I did not definitively tell anyone that one of the reasons why Chicago wasn't getting hit early was because they weren't going to school. I tried to look for obvious differences between Chicago's mitigation efforts and those of other regions in the state, and that one stuck out for me (especially considering the difference in population density), so I offered it as a possibility.  It seemed reasonable to me at the time as a possible reason, and it still does.

Both my wife's school and my kids have been and are continuing to be open, so it's not much of an issue for me.

ramblinman wrote:

You aren't wrong.  I have changed my mind on this issue.  Is that okay, or would you respect me more if I remained closed minded and pig headed about it?

Fair enough I guess.

Head Idiot wrote:
Both my wife's school and my kids have been and are continuing to be open, so it's not much of an issue for me.

As I typed this i got an email from the kids' school. Apparently they're staying in person until Christmas and they they're extending break until January 15th so they can "track" better since people go in the wind over Christmas. I don't know how they plan to track people close from January 5th-15th, but it probably was the best reason they could get on paper.

EDIT- they're calling it a "preventative adaptive pause". I wonder what random action word generator they got that from.

Head Idiot wrote:
As I typed this i got an email from the kids' school. Apparently they're staying in person until Christmas and they they're extending break until January 15th so they can "track" better since people go in the wind over Christmas.

I understand the extended break part, but I think it is interesting that they have announced that they will be in person for basically the next 30 days when the numbers are spiking as they are doing now. Did they hedge their bet at all by saying that they reserve the right to amend that decision should the situation warrant?

Head Idiot wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:
Both my wife's school and my kids have been and are continuing to be open, so it's not much of an issue for me.

As I typed this i got an email from the kids' school. Apparently they're staying in person until Christmas and they they're extending break until January 15th so they can "track" better since people go in the wind over Christmas. I don't know how they plan to track people close from January 5th-15th, but it probably was the best reason they could get on paper.

EDIT- they're calling it a "preventative adaptive pause". I wonder what random action word generator they got that from.

I quite like that phrase. It beats my first thought - "bowing to external pressures with no real evidence." So far, we are staying open in our hybrid model. The teachers and staff union has filed a formal grievance - I mocked them for filing something that will take a minimum of 5 weeks to resolve - pure theatrics. I told one of my school's reps if they were serious - they would have filed for an injunction. I heard this prompted them to have a meeting with the union's legal team - LOL!

We went from hybrid to virtual two weeks ago. Our school did not use the phrase "preventative adaptive pause" but OT's interpretation would be the exact reason for why we did.

Head Idiot wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:
Both my wife's school and my kids have been and are continuing to be open, so it's not much of an issue for me.

As I typed this i got an email from the kids' school. Apparently they're staying in person until Christmas and they they're extending break until January 15th so they can "track" better since people go in the wind over Christmas. I don't know how they plan to track people close from January 5th-15th, but it probably was the best reason they could get on paper.

EDIT- they're calling it a "preventative adaptive pause". I wonder what random action word generator they got that from.

Administrators are on it with their timing today. As I was typing my previous message, our Superintendent emailed saying we're planning on going back to in-person next week.

wolverine55 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:
Both my wife's school and my kids have been and are continuing to be open, so it's not much of an issue for me.

As I typed this i got an email from the kids' school. Apparently they're staying in person until Christmas and they they're extending break until January 15th so they can "track" better since people go in the wind over Christmas. I don't know how they plan to track people close from January 5th-15th, but it probably was the best reason they could get on paper.

EDIT- they're calling it a "preventative adaptive pause". I wonder what random action word generator they got that from.

Administrators are on it with their timing today.  As I was typing my previous message, our Superintendent emailed saying we're planning on going back to in-person next week.

Turk's- where the pulse of today's education world originates.

ramblinman wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:
As I typed this i got an email from the kids' school. Apparently they're staying in person until Christmas and they they're extending break until January 15th so they can "track" better since people go in the wind over Christmas.

I understand the extended break part, but I think it is interesting that they have announced that they will be in person for basically the next 30 days when the numbers are spiking as they are doing now. Did they hedge their bet at all by saying that they reserve the right to amend that decision should the situation warrant?

They did. It goes with their "monitoring the statistics".

What kills me is the kids haven't stopped hanging out with each other this entire 9 months. Take away school and they just hang out in people's homes in completely unregulated manners.

ramblinman wrote:  How bad does the pandemic have to be before we bite the bullet and shut down schools?  How many new daily confirmed cases per 100K of population do there need to be and/or how bad do the hospitalization numbers need to be before we say enough already?  What's the pandemic pain threshold past which a district (or the state) reaches the conclusion that the public health benefits of closing outweigh the negative impacts that closing school have on mental health and child development?  Or do we say that in person school moves forward no matter how bad it gets?  

Back in the Spring the Governor made a decision to shut down all schools in the state for positive cases in Cook and the collar counties. He made a decision based upon what was happening in Chicago and the fact we did not know what we know now about the disease.

As I have said from tht beginning, the decision for schools and businesses should be made by local officials based upon the metrics for that area. For many downstate areas, they are just now starting to see how bad it can spread but from March - September, they saw very few cases.

A one size fits all approach does not work of anything. What happens in Cook, Will, DuPage, and Kane counties should not determine what happens in the rest of the state. Sadly, what happens in those counties drives many of the decisions for the entire state.

We've been in session non stop since August and we have fewer cases than some schools that have been remote. I know we are a small school but people say what we are doing is dangerous but schools being remote may be just as, if not more, dangerous than being in school.

I have not read all 21 pages nor have I been on here for quite a while but I have to comment of the use of the positivity rate as a means of measuring the spread of the China Virus.  I don't take the Champaign newspaper but I see it when I go to my mom's house to check on her. They are always touting how the C-U and UI positivity rate is much lower than the surrounding rural areas across the front page.  

I have a neighbor that is a UI professor and I asked him why he thought that was, and as I expected, he said it was due to the controls that the University had put in to stop the spread of the disease and that the rural people still go to bars and gather in large unmasked groups..... I pointed out that you have 20k college kids and staff getting tested every week sometimes twice a week and add in the health care workers at two major hospitals who get routine tests after being exposed to china virus positive patients and you get quite a number of tests. ( big denominator)  
Meanwhile in Mahomet, Tuscola or Rantoul you go about your life and don't get tested unless you are experiencing symptoms to have been in direct contact with a positive China virus person.  The positivity rate will be much higher in these areas where fewer test are being given and only those who suspect they may be infected are getting tested versus thousands of tests every week on people who have no symptoms or suspected contact with a CV positive person in CU.  It is just the wrong statistic to use to justify anything.  The answer is not to test the snot out of everyone either.  Be smart about your activities, behavior and hygiene and get on with your life.

On a personal note I was in a meeting with a client on a Tuesday three weeks ago and he calls me on the following Friday to tell me he had tested positive after experiencing symptoms....I contacted County health department to see if I should get tested and was told that until I develop symptoms, I should isolate and quarantine for 10-14 days.  So I dutifully quarantined in a tent in the Shawnee forest with my bow and shotgun for the first deer season...

[

Dawgdad wrote:I have not read all 21 pages nor have I been on here for quite a while but I have to comment of the use of the positivity rate as a means of measuring the spread of the China Virus.  I don't take the Champaign newspaper but I see it when I go to my mom's house to check on her. They are always touting how the C-U and UI positivity rate is much lower than the surrounding rural areas across the front page.  

I have a neighbor that is a UI professor and I asked him why he thought that was, and as I expected, he said it was due to the controls that the University had put in to stop the spread of the disease and that the rural people still go to bars and gather in large unmasked groups..... I pointed out that you have 20k college kids and staff getting tested every week sometimes twice a week and add in the health care workers at two major hospitals who get routine tests after being exposed to china virus positive patients and you get quite a number of tests. ( big denominator)  
Meanwhile in Mahomet, Tuscola or Rantoul you go about your life and don't get tested unless you are experiencing symptoms to have been in direct contact with a positive China virus person.  The positivity rate will be much higher in these areas where fewer test are being given and only those who suspect they may be infected are getting tested versus thousands of tests every week on people who have no symptoms or suspected contact with a CV positive person in CU.  It is just the wrong statistic to use to justify anything.  The answer is not to test the snot out of everyone either.  Be smart about your activities, behavior and hygiene and get on with your life.

On a personal note I was in a meeting with a client on a Tuesday three weeks ago and he calls me on the following Friday to tell me he had tested positive after experiencing symptoms....I contacted County health department to see if I should get tested and was told that until I develop symptoms, I should isolate and quarantine for 10-14 days.  So I dutifully quarantined in a tent in the Shawnee forest with my bow and shotgun for the first deer season...

[

Good to hear from you again DD. Your logic regarding positivity rate is spot on. I've been deer hunting in Mason County. Passed up a couple 3-4 year old bucks earlier in November. Presently there are a couple of absolute studs hanging out on the property next to where I can hunt. Hoping I can catch a break on one of them.

I talked to my 95 year old grandmother yesterday, which was her birthday. Luckily she is in a great nursing home and outbreaks have been limited to 2 or 3 residents. However, her decline in mental health is very scary and the way she was talking was very sad to hear. She has only seen my step-dad a few times when they were allowing visitors during the summer. She has not seen any grandchildren or great grandchildren since March. She eats 3 meals alone at a table and there is very little interaction allowed among the residents due to fear of spread.

She told me, "I don't want to die but what it the point of living if you can't see those you love? I'm done fighting. I want to live but not live like this."

This was very tough for me to hear but like my step dad said, can you blame her? Holed up by herself in a room for 22 of 24 hours a day, people in prison have more freedom than her. Phone calls only do so much, the elderly need to see and feel those they love and the mental stress this is adding on those in these facilities should not be overlooked.

My sister is an administrator at a Alzheimer's and Dementia facility and she has also stated that decline in mental health and mental fortitude are declining faster than she has seen in her 15 years at the facility.

My youngest son and his bride (pregnant with twins) tested positive for antibodies.  So, I guess they had it but didn't know it?

My in-laws are Covid-scared and won't do Christmas if we and the Texas kids come up.. but still drive without seatbelts to grocery shop and refuse to use the delivery service offered.  They're too cheap.  Plus, they like to "get out" once in a while.  This is the woman with TWO refridges and TWO chest freezers full.. for two people.

My mom is a def high-risk candidate (85yo smoker with health issues)  who INSISTS on having the usual Xmas gathering at her house.  Haven't talked to my sisters, who are in charge of keeping her on lockdown, but I imagine we'll just do Xmas in Texas, then another in Peoria in March after the in-laws get their Trump vaccine and the twins are here.

My family and my wifes family have already shut down Christmas. Officially there are 13.8 million people in US known to have the virus. I'm pretty sure that 70-80 million people have already had it because most have mild symptoms or no symptoms.

Dawgdad wrote:I have not read all 21 pages nor have I been on here for quite a while but I have to comment of the use of the positivity rate as a means of measuring the spread of the China Virus.  I don't take the Champaign newspaper but I see it when I go to my mom's house to check on her. They are always touting how the C-U and UI positivity rate is much lower than the surrounding rural areas across the front page.  

I have a neighbor that is a UI professor and I asked him why he thought that was, and as I expected, he said it was due to the controls that the University had put in to stop the spread of the disease and that the rural people still go to bars and gather in large unmasked groups..... I pointed out that you have 20k college kids and staff getting tested every week sometimes twice a week and add in the health care workers at two major hospitals who get routine tests after being exposed to china virus positive patients and you get quite a number of tests. ( big denominator)  
Meanwhile in Mahomet, Tuscola or Rantoul you go about your life and don't get tested unless you are experiencing symptoms to have been in direct contact with a positive China virus person.  The positivity rate will be much higher in these areas where fewer test are being given and only those who suspect they may be infected are getting tested versus thousands of tests every week on people who have no symptoms or suspected contact with a CV positive person in CU.  It is just the wrong statistic to use to justify anything.  The answer is not to test the snot out of everyone either.  Be smart about your activities, behavior and hygiene and get on with your life.

On a personal note I was in a meeting with a client on a Tuesday three weeks ago and he calls me on the following Friday to tell me he had tested positive after experiencing symptoms....I contacted County health department to see if I should get tested and was told that until I develop symptoms, I should isolate and quarantine for 10-14 days.  So I dutifully quarantined in a tent in the Shawnee forest with my bow and shotgun for the first deer season...

[

You act like you taught Science somewhere back in the day! I might have learned a few things from you back in the day. Great points. The access to the test for U of I kids is so much easier. I was talking to a Prof and his wife and they can get into a testing facility almost immediately 24-7. Out here in the sticks, you have to find a place that is doing them, is open, make an appointment, and then sometimes wait a day to get tested. After that, you have to often wait extra time to hear your results back.

I am hearing that the U of I crowd is heading out to rural drinking establishments that are under less restrictions and pressure from those in the C-U proper. Some of those little local country bars are enjoying the influx of business to make up for the time they were shut down. Also trying to make some coin in anticipating another level of restrictions forthcoming.

Dawg, I was in your old neighborhood a few weeks ago. (if you still live in the same local) It was random that I wound up there, but I was out for a joyride on the bike. Hope you are doing well!

JB blowing up the goalposts.
follow the rules, get the numbers where he says they should be. doesn't matter, F-U anyway. 
does illinois have a recall process?

https://twitter.com/GovPritzker/status/1333538991438782466

tps wrote:JB blowing up the goalposts.
follow the rules, get the numbers where he says they should be. doesn't matter, F-U anyway. 
does illinois have a recall process?

https://twitter.com/GovPritzker/status/1333538991438782466

\"f\"ing you little people. I'll be in Florida or Wisconsin if you need anything.