R.I.P. Republican Party

dusty7 wrote:

Teetime wrote:
The snowflakes that attacked the Senate and House chambers yesterday were upset that they lost an election. They were trying to overturn the will of the people with force.  

As I stated earlier, I do not think it is far fetched to see this happening again.  Especially if a "Squad" member ends up getting elected for 1 term then losing a 2nd term election.  

You have a small but very loud group that supports their cause.

But why is it that whenever one side loses an election they are crying foul? Dems did it '16 and not Trump in 20. The discourse on both sides is pathetic.  As upset as people were with Bush/Gore, neither side cried foul. They accepted the results and waited until the next election.  

What the Dems did in 2016 and how long that dragged out was truly ridiculous. I don't recall anything like this though.

You would think that the Security would have been better. I think going forward that will be looked at. The explanation I've hear was that the Capitol police was badly outnumbered which is probably true.

The Democrats were upset in 2016 no doubt. I think part of that was because more people voted for Hillary than Trump but she still lost. One could argue that our system of electing our President is antiquated but that's a discussion for another time.
Biden actually won this election by a pretty good margin in popular vote (7 million), which is more than Obama beat Romney by. The violence we saw yesterday was perpetuated by the lie by Trump that the election was rigged and that he really won by a landslide. It's hard for me to understand the gullibility of Trump supporters who believe his lies. That's what brought us to the ugly and embarrassing event we saw yesterday. This was all brought on by Trump. When he leaves office he is going to spend years and millions of dollars trying to keep himself out of jail.

tps wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:I'm hearing that 4 people died at the Capitol yesterday, not one. Besides the 1 woman who died while charging the police there were 3 medical emergencies that resulted in deaths.

i disagree with your description of charging the police
https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1347076676342185984

This video is beyond disturbing...but I'm not sure how you can disagree that she was not charging the police...a barrier was set up with broken glass, chairs / benches set up as a makeshift wall to clearly keep protesters at bay. The officer had his weapon drawn and yet she still clearly is attempting to get over the barrier. This is a horrible situation and no one should have lost their lives in this; that is a point not worth arguing. But just because she was a member of our armed forces doesn't excuse her from making poor, potentially life threatening decisions. Simply listen to the video; the chaos that was ensuing here is unreal. Should that officer have fired his weapon...probably not. But his duty is to protect members of Congress in that building...maybe I'm missing something, but in the face of a chaotic mob like this one, what she was doing was clearly an aggressive act.

OSUBucks wrote:The Democrats were upset in 2016 no doubt. I think part of that was because more people voted for Hillary than Trump but she still lost. One could argue that our system of electing our President is antiquated but that's a discussion for another time.
Biden actually won this election by a pretty good margin in popular vote (7 million), which is more than Obama beat Romney by. The violence we saw yesterday was perpetuated by the lie by Trump that the election was rigged and that he really won by a landslide. It's hard for me to understand the gullibility of Trump supporters who believe his lies. That's what brought us to the ugly and embarrassing event we saw yesterday. This was all brought on by Trump. When he leaves office he is going to spend years and millions of dollars trying to keep himself out of jail.

I still just don't understand how any smart person can support him.

I just read that as many as 60 Capitol police officers were injured yesterday and 15 required hospitalization, one in critical condition. That sounds like a lot for a non violent protest.

OSUBucks wrote:

Teetime wrote:So that is very graphic.

I think it shows a crowd pushing against a door that has been barricaded with furniture. Then a cop pops out of an area behind the door that the crowd was pushing on and fires one shot. The lady goes down. I'm assuming that was the lady that died.

Is that what you see?

That lady and the others who were with her all put themselves in potentially dangerous situations. From videos I've seen I'm surprised by the restraint showed by the capitol police. They didn't make much of an effort to prevent the mob from entering the capitol. She might have been a good person who just got caught up in the emotions of that mob action. Her decision to follow the rest of the mob who forced there way in the capitol cost her her life.

What do they always say when its an african american getting shot?
"If they just listened to police, they wouldn't get shot."
"If they just didn't break the law, they wouldn't get shot."

dusty7 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:
Thankful that the protestors on the left have more respect for the Constitution and principals on which our country was founded.  

Well the principles of the Constitution are
1. Judicial Reivew
2. Separation of Power
3. Limited Government
4. Popular Sovereignty
5. Federalism
6. Checks and Balances
7. Individual Rights

Looking at the protests from the summer, I would say the protestors on the left did not respect Individual Rights when they were rioting, burning cars, looting businesses.

The actions of yesterday, I do not think it was a way to overthrow the government but rather a failed attempt to overthrow one of the processes in our government which is a violation of the principles. If it was a real attempt to overthrow the government, they would still be out there today and would not have given up so easily and they would use arms to protect themselves.  Hell, by 11pm they were all gone and some individuals were able to escape with some memorabilia.

There has been some talk of the individual who was arrested being the same people who were arrested over the summer in the BLM protests.  I guess that will all come out in time but not sure I am buying into that.  

For the record, I did not write what you were responding to.

Ghengis Khan wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:

Teetime wrote:So that is very graphic.

I think it shows a crowd pushing against a door that has been barricaded with furniture. Then a cop pops out of an area behind the door that the crowd was pushing on and fires one shot. The lady goes down. I'm assuming that was the lady that died.

Is that what you see?

That lady and the others who were with her all put themselves in potentially dangerous situations. From videos I've seen I'm surprised by the restraint showed by the capitol police. They didn't make much of an effort to prevent the mob from entering the capitol. She might have been a good person who just got caught up in the emotions of that mob action. Her decision to follow the rest of the mob who forced there way in the capitol cost her her life.

What do they always say when its an african american getting shot?
"If they just listened to police, they wouldn't get shot."
"If they just didn't break the law, they wouldn't get shot."

Truth.

tps wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:I'm hearing that 4 people died at the Capitol yesterday, not one. Besides the 1 woman who died while charging the police there were 3 medical emergencies that resulted in deaths.

i disagree with your description of charging the police
https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1347076676342185984

If shooting a black person for wielding a weapon at police is murder, this sure as hell is murder.

PS- I don't necessarily think either is murder.

lefty120 wrote:  But his duty is to protect members of Congress in that building...

Who are supposed to be there working for us. They're our employees. It's our building. They are not elites to be kept from the public.

If you can charge a member of Congress and harass them in their homes, or while they're out to eat, or other places, why not when they're at their place of work where they're supposed to be executing our wills, not running their elite system.

Note- this message is mostly devils advocate, but there are certainly many themes i agree with.

Head Idiot wrote:

dusty7 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:
Thankful that the protestors on the left have more respect for the Constitution and principals on which our country was founded.  

Well the principles of the Constitution are
1. Judicial Reivew
2. Separation of Power
3. Limited Government
4. Popular Sovereignty
5. Federalism
6. Checks and Balances
7. Individual Rights

Looking at the protests from the summer, I would say the protestors on the left did not respect Individual Rights when they were rioting, burning cars, looting businesses.

The actions of yesterday, I do not think it was a way to overthrow the government but rather a failed attempt to overthrow one of the processes in our government which is a violation of the principles. If it was a real attempt to overthrow the government, they would still be out there today and would not have given up so easily and they would use arms to protect themselves.  Hell, by 11pm they were all gone and some individuals were able to escape with some memorabilia.

There has been some talk of the individual who was arrested being the same people who were arrested over the summer in the BLM protests.  I guess that will all come out in time but not sure I am buying into that.  

For the record, I did not write what you were responding to.

Yes, I know, I screwed up when deleting the quote. It was TeeTime

Head Idiot wrote:

lefty120 wrote:  But his duty is to protect members of Congress in that building...

Who are supposed to be there working for us. They're our employees. It's our building. They are not elites to be kept from the public.

If you can charge a member of Congress and harass them in their homes, or while they're out to eat, or other places, why not when they're at their place of work where they're supposed to be executing our wills, not running their elite system.

Note- this message is mostly devils advocate, but there are certainly many themes i agree with.

Millions voted for Biden...they were trying to execute well over a majority of the voting electorate's will were they not? And I agree with many of your theme's here btw. While we may be on the opposite side of the aisle on certain issues, we both, maybe because we've taught social studies for years, agree our system is horribly broken and virtually beyond repair.

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:

lefty120 wrote:  But his duty is to protect members of Congress in that building...

Who are supposed to be there working for us. They're our employees. It's our building. They are not elites to be kept from the public.

If you can charge a member of Congress and harass them in their homes, or while they're out to eat, or other places, why not when they're at their place of work where they're supposed to be executing our wills, not running their elite system.

Note- this message is mostly devils advocate, but there are certainly many themes i agree with.

Millions voted for Biden...they were trying to execute well over a majority of the voting electorate's will were they not?  And I agree with many of your theme's here btw.  While we may be on the opposite side of the aisle on certain issues, we both, maybe because we've taught social studies for years, agree our system is horribly broken and virtually beyond repair.  

But there job is not to execute the will of the mob, but of their constituents. Most of whom have been muted by gerrymandering so whatever party can maintain power.

The only way that system changes is through scenes like yesterday.

Head Idiot wrote:

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:

lefty120 wrote:  But his duty is to protect members of Congress in that building...

Who are supposed to be there working for us. They're our employees. It's our building. They are not elites to be kept from the public.

If you can charge a member of Congress and harass them in their homes, or while they're out to eat, or other places, why not when they're at their place of work where they're supposed to be executing our wills, not running their elite system.

Note- this message is mostly devils advocate, but there are certainly many themes i agree with.

Millions voted for Biden...they were trying to execute well over a majority of the voting electorate's will were they not?  And I agree with many of your theme's here btw.  While we may be on the opposite side of the aisle on certain issues, we both, maybe because we've taught social studies for years, agree our system is horribly broken and virtually beyond repair.  

But there job is not to execute the will of the mob, but of their constituents. Most of whom have been muted by gerrymandering so whatever party can maintain power.

The only way that system changes is through scenes like yesterday.

As sad as it is, you're probably right...about change. Man is it hard to be a social studies teacher right now.

Head Idiot wrote:
But there job is not to execute the will of the mob, but of their constituents. Most of whom have been muted by gerrymandering so whatever party can maintain power.

The only way that system changes is through scenes like yesterday.

I cannot agree with you more on gerrymandering. Both parties are guilty of drawing district lines in the years after the census. That is another reason, that many people don't realize, why this was such a hotly contested election. The lines will be drawn in a way that benefits the Dems and over the next 10 years, people will grow tired of the Dems policies and the Reps will win and draw the lines for their benefit, and this cycle will repeat. The voice of the American people is not being at the national level.

As you said, congress makes their decisions based upon what they want or what they are persuaded to want lobbyist and their political party and not their constituents. If there is an immediate change that can take place that could start to fix the broken system it is ending, or at least limiting, the lobbying practices of the special interests. After that, you must create term limits of some sort whether it be the tenure of leadership or years served. As a politician you are supposed to serve at the will of the people and that service should not become a career.

lefty120 wrote:
As sad as it is, you're probably right...about change.  Man is it hard to be a social studies teacher right now.

You are correct in this. I remember beginning teaching American Government and using some of your old materials back in Peotone and man how things have changed since then. My focus then and now is to teach the students how the system is supposed to work and identify the flaws within the system and what changed that created those flaws.

A very lucrative career at that.

I think the best hope of changing the system was a Trump type candidate. Not Trump himself as he has obviously proven to be extremely self interested. But in the mold of someone self sustainably wealthy from outside the establishment. Probably the greatest hope we've had in my lifetime was Ross Perot. And man, didn't the system go to work on marginalizing him?

I know Tee and many others gave much credence to the Lincoln project, but most of Washington's issues with a Trump type presidency is that he isn't there to service the system. Call it the Deep State or whatever, but this government is not here for the people. It doesn't represent the people, hell it doesn't even care about the people. Lining their pockets and maintaining power is their #1 job. US citizens are just pawns they use to gain more power and prosperity.

More on Ashli Babbitt, the woman who was killed in the capitol yesterday. She believed Trump's lies and other false conspiracies and it got her killed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ashli-babbitt-military-veteran-killed-inside-us-capitol-followed-her-belief-in-president-trump-to-her-death/ar-BB1cyKbl?ocid=Peregrine

OSUBucks wrote:More on Ashli Babbitt, the woman who was killed in the capitol yesterday. She believed Trump's lies and other false conspiracies and it got her killed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ashli-babbitt-military-veteran-killed-inside-us-capitol-followed-her-belief-in-president-trump-to-her-death/ar-BB1cyKbl?ocid=Peregrine

Wait, I thought those people storming the Capitol building were Antifa and BLM agitators disguised as Trump supporters while the peaceful, law abiding, blue lives matter Trump protestors were outside.  This seems to fly in the face of that theory.  

I'm so confused!

ramblinman wrote:

tps wrote:how would one describe a violent group of people and their actions who are trying to storm the white house that causes the president to be moved to a bunker?

Less effective terrorists.  

i think we agree on this

Teetime wrote:Violence is wrong. It’s wrong in May, June and January.

we agree on this. i think we also agree they should not have been in that building

Teetime wrote:Today, for the first time in 200 years, the capitol building was breached by an opposition force.  

Not so much
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2021/01/06/6-other-times-people-broke-into-the-u-s-capitol-n1310385

tps wrote:

Teetime wrote:Violence is wrong. It’s wrong in May, June and January.

we agree on this. i think we also agree they should not have been in that building

Teetime wrote:Today, for the first time in 200 years, the capitol building was breached by an opposition force.  

Not so much
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2021/01/06/6-other-times-people-broke-into-the-u-s-capitol-n1310385

Like I said...no opposition forces since the War of 1812

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:

lefty120 wrote:  But his duty is to protect members of Congress in that building...

Who are supposed to be there working for us. They're our employees. It's our building. They are not elites to be kept from the public.

If you can charge a member of Congress and harass them in their homes, or while they're out to eat, or other places, why not when they're at their place of work where they're supposed to be executing our wills, not running their elite system.

Note- this message is mostly devils advocate, but there are certainly many themes i agree with.

Millions voted for Biden...they were trying to execute well over a majority of the voting electorate's will were they not?  And I agree with many of your theme's here btw.  While we may be on the opposite side of the aisle on certain issues, we both, maybe because we've taught social studies for years, agree our system is horribly broken and virtually beyond repair.  

But there job is not to execute the will of the mob, but of their constituents. Most of whom have been muted by gerrymandering so whatever party can maintain power.

The only way that system changes is through scenes like yesterday.

As sad as it is, you're probably right...about change.  Man is it hard to be a social studies teacher right now.

i agree with both of you on this (scenes like yesterday is probably the way to change things.) and it is sad. many talk about broken systems, corruption, voter fraud, gerrymandering, lobbyist, taxation, hypocrisy, etc. etc. i disagree with saying that trump is the only reason for what happened yesterday. many on here share the same frustrations (you post about it) but did not go to the extremes (obviously) that a few did yesterday. they took it too far and they were wrong.

Teetime wrote:

tps wrote:

Teetime wrote:Violence is wrong. It’s wrong in May, June and January.

we agree on this. i think we also agree they should not have been in that building

Teetime wrote:Today, for the first time in 200 years, the capitol building was breached by an opposition force.  

Not so much
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2021/01/06/6-other-times-people-broke-into-the-u-s-capitol-n1310385

Like I said...no opposition forces since the War of 1812

folks in those examples were all unopposed to our government. got it.

obama palled around with one of the weatherman - ayres.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground