Districts Passed

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Re: Districts Passed

Post by lefty120 on Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:05 pm

ramblinman wrote:
lefty120 wrote:I'm just hoping that in the future, if districts stick, there's a way we can put together some sort of meaning on those games.  

Can't recall if it was here or at Edgy's, but someone wondered if more meaning could be added to the first two games by counting them for seeding purposes.  That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Relative to qualifying, what if there are two teams at 6-1, one at 5-2, and two at 4-3?    Why can't the first two games be used as part of a tie breaking system relative to qualifying and seeding?

I like where your head is at there!! Just give them some sort of meaning.

The problem still is, and will be until these things are all addressed, that the IHSA allowed this proposal to be put in front of the town hall meetings and then to the voting public with so many unanswered questions that, at the end of the day, they're going to have to figure out. Which will inevitably anger many people.

I'll say it here; with two more seasons before this is implemented, the proposal that was just passed will NOT be the proposal that's implemented in 2021. There's no way! There's going to have to be several things added to it to eliminate stuff being thrown together at the last minute once the seasons are already under way. And I'm not even including in there making the first 2 games mean something. Then the question becomes, does the IHSA have the power to do that? Change a proposal that was voted on by the membership and just add or subtract to it as they see fit?

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Re: Districts Passed

Post by illinipete on Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:08 pm

center wrote:Here is an example why a school like ours would vote for it.

Here are the current enrollments for the Big Northern:

Dixon 742 (almost 5A)
Rock falls 645 4A
SV 596 4A
GK 588 4A
Lutheran 575 (multiplier 4A)
Mendota 555 4A
N Boone 503 3A
Byron 470 3A
Bago 454 3A
Oregon 398…….

We are the 398. In the past several years our conference has decided to vote in Dixon, another private school who has some state caliber programs other than football, and Johnsburg. The Johnsburg that beat Phillips in football and left the BNC anyway.

So our conference decisions were not helping us.


As a parent of THE Valley student athletes I never understood letting in dixon and rf. Who voted in these expansions, sup's, AD's, principals??
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Re: Districts Passed

Post by Huck on Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:17 pm

ramblinman wrote:Why can't the first two games be used as part of a tie breaking system relative to qualifying and seeding?

I have a couple potential reasons, though how good they are is open to debate.....

#1- Why should seeding for a 7A playoff depend on the results of the first two games if there is no standard for scheduling?  One 7A team plays a 5A creampuff while another plays a solid 7 or 8A program.  Using these games, if you are going just based on wins and losses you have the same problem that caused many of the schools to vote for districts in the first place, just on a smaller scale.  If there was some sort of Strength Of Schedule factor thrown in, then I would be more for it in this scenario, but I see it causing problems still in #2, though not for near as many teams.

#2- It has the potential to finish off current rivalries that might be on life support now due to districts.  If a 6A Bloomington team can't catch back up to 7A Normal Community, for how many years should they take that seeding hit just because it is a rivalry?  If a SOS factor is thrown in, why should Normal Community take the seeding hit for scheduling a smaller program?

I certainly agree with the theory. Anything that makes all stakeholders take games 1 and 2 seriously, I am for, but only if the above two points can be figured out somehow.
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Re: Districts Passed

Post by lefty120 on Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:24 pm

+1 to you sir! Excellent points.

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Re: Districts Passed

Post by ramblinman on Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:01 pm

Huck wrote:
ramblinman wrote:Why can't the first two games be used as part of a tie breaking system relative to qualifying and seeding?

I have a couple potential reasons, though how good they are is open to debate.....

#1- Why should seeding for a 7A playoff depend on the results of the first two games if there is no standard for scheduling?  One 7A team plays a 5A creampuff while another plays a solid 7 or 8A program.  Using these games, if you are going just based on wins and losses you have the same problem that caused many of the schools to vote for districts in the first place, just on a smaller scale.  If there was some sort of Strength Of Schedule factor thrown in, then I would be more for it in this scenario, but I see it causing problems still in #2, though not for near as many teams.

#2- It has the potential to finish off current rivalries that might be on life support now due to districts.  If a 6A Bloomington team can't catch back up to 7A Normal Community, for how many years should they take that seeding hit just because it is a rivalry?  If a SOS factor is thrown in, why should Normal Community take the seeding hit for scheduling a smaller program?

I certainly agree with the theory.  Anything that makes all stakeholders take games 1 and 2 seriously, I am for, but only if the above two points can be figured out somehow.

Don't really have much of a response to your point #2. As to point #1, what you describe can happen right now without districts in that a 7A program can schedule cream puffs for non-con games and have them count in terms of qualifying and seeding. At least with the district concept, those cream puff games wouldn't count toward qualifying.
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Re: Districts Passed

Post by Huck on Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:06 pm

That was kind of my point about #1. I think, for some schools, part of passing districts is to get away from that type of scheduling.
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Re: Districts Passed

Post by Teetime on Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:15 pm

ging wrote:i said this many years ago, but the ihsa needs to stop using enrollment as the only way to classify teams.  

someone needs to develop a system that classifies teams based on enrollment AND the strength of the program over the course of several seasons.  there have been computer rankings for years that, while not perfect, could be used to provide guidance for this.


You mean like a success formula?

I thought they had that?

But only for certain teams.


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Re: Districts Passed

Post by center on Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:14 pm

illinipete wrote:
center wrote:Here is an example why a school like ours would vote for it.

Here are the current enrollments for the Big Northern:

Dixon 742 (almost 5A)
Rock falls 645 4A
SV 596 4A
GK 588 4A
Lutheran 575 (multiplier 4A)
Mendota 555 4A
N Boone 503 3A
Byron 470 3A
Bago 454 3A
Oregon 398…….

We are the 398. In the past several years our conference has decided to vote in Dixon, another private school who has some state caliber programs other than football, and Johnsburg. The Johnsburg that beat Phillips in football and left the BNC anyway.

So our conference decisions were not helping us.


As a parent of THE Valley student athletes I never understood letting in dixon and rf. Who voted in these expansions, sup's, AD's, principals??

The BNC has a “board of controls” which is basically the principals vote. I assume most principals consult their AD’s. I can tell you that many voted opposite what their coaches wanted.

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Re: Districts Passed

Post by mc140 on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:37 am

If you use the first two games for seeding purposes, you still have most of the same issues they have now.

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Re: Districts Passed

Post by Teetime on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:24 pm

mc140 wrote:If you use the first two games for seeding purposes, you still have most of the same issues they have now.


Well if the big problem right now is conference shopping to get five wins, you won't have any of that.

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Re: Districts Passed

Post by niewi 24 on Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:18 am

Coach53 wrote:My personal favorite of the new Districts is the one with Plainfield and Edwardsville...Makes TOTAL sense

And that is the reason I am not a fan of this thing. Our furthest drive right now from Plainfield North is to Minooka, which is 15 miles. Potentially, we could be traveling to the St. Louis area 2 or 3 times in a season. Currently, our conference has ten teams from five towns. I just think of all of the teams we would be passing by on our commute if these projections panned out.
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Re: Districts Passed

Post by Bighitter11 on Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:01 am

Been working on the old District mapping using the newly released 2 year Enrollment Figures. Im down to 520 Playoff Eligible football Playing Schools so only 1 Class will have 9 Team Districts I think I elected for Class 5A For those.

7A was the Death Map as I was down to 2 Schools to have to fill that South Bracket with Alton, Granite City, Collinsville, Belleville West. Those Schools were Moline and Bradley Bourbonnais. The Time travel to those 4 schools were about the same so the tie breaker was the trip to Quincy which was much closer for Moline so they got the dirty south 7a Bracket. Map work here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1azV5TKUn8nf2Wf1v6efq5sW8xUOQbKgh&usp=sharing
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