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Post by general maximus on Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:44 am

As pointed out by Pike, the situation makes sense for them to NOT like Districts. But the situation is not the same everywhere else. What this comes down to is an actual vote in Democratic form. Unless we dispute the numbers, what really can we say?

Our situation is different. We have played some 3A and 4A teams the last couple of years. Travel has been a B and is only going to get worse. Additionally, our numbers are trending down. To be in a conference with one other 1A school is less than ideal. I know some will argue that playing a strong schedule will prepare you for the playoffs. But a guy with 4 championship rings told me that playing that really tough schedule gets you a 6-3 or worse draw in the playoffs and then an earlier exit. If you would have played a more reasonable schedule, you might have won a couple playoff games.

Some of the folks that are complaining the loudest have VERY valid points about their concerns. (Travel, Conference relationships, and other reasons) But, for others, it made sense to vote the way
they did. Some schools are also just pissed that they will be playing schools that are their size. Think about a few teams that are the biggest in their conf and traditionally beat up on the smaller teams. They are now going to have to travel and play like sized schools. NO WONDER they do not like it. But the other schools in the Conf may not express their views, but actually like the turn of events.

In our situation, we keep losing schools and underclass games. We have had to play one school 3 times in a year at the fresh level to get games. What Coach Romine said the other day about his team now having to go find underclass games makes perfect sense. In the past most of the conf teams have underclass games. Now that he goes to another situation, some of the schools in his district will not have those. He has a complete legit point.

Our underclass schedule has included St.Joe, Mont, Unity, PBL, Newton, and Sullivan because we cannot get Underclass games from a bunch teams. So why not just continue those and then play similar sized schools at the varsity level where travel is a wash from current and district schedules.

As for the scrimmage game mentality, I doubt the Coal Bucket will be a "scrimmage" that no one cares about. Neither will the City Games in B-N, C-U, or GCMS-PLB. SHG-Rochester if placed in different districts will mean nothing?? Come on, we have conference games that are hard to get up for, but we do.

I am more concerned about how to practice on Tuesdays with very limited players available because they can have NO contact after a game. And if my kicker kicks in a fresh game on Thursday is not avail for Varsity on Friday? BUT that is a different thread and some schools do not see that as a problem at all. Strange, I do not recall that proposal coming up for a vote.

It is called Democracy.

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Post by Head Idiot on Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:57 am

general maximus wrote:Some schools are also just pissed that they will be playing schools that are their size. Think about a few teams that are the biggest in their conf and traditionally beat up on the smaller teams. They are now going to have to travel and play like sized schools. NO WONDER they do not like it. But the other schools in the Conf may not express their views, but actually like the turn of events.
Clinton went 5-4 this year and didn't get in based on points. If there were districts this year, they very well could have went 0-9 and got running clocked 7 times.
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Post by awm on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:00 am

In the end, people look out for their own self interest. Enough thought they would benefit from it in some way to vote for it. I found it interesting that, at least locally, coaches of highly successful programs are taking the sky is falling approach while others are going with the wait and see attitude.

Personally, I enjoy change and the opportunities and challenges that come along. Add that to the fact that this eliminates some stupid policies and I'm sold and excited to see what happens.

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Post by Head Idiot on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:09 am

awm wrote:In the end, people look out for their own self interest. Enough thought they would benefit from it in some way to vote for it. I found it interesting that, at least locally, coaches of highly successful programs are taking the sky is falling approach while others are going with the wait and see attitude.

Personally, I enjoy change and the opportunities and challenges that come along. Add that to the fact that this eliminates some stupid policies and I'm sold and excited to see what happens.
My personal favorite was a local coach complaining about districts and then 10 mins later retweeting their football account's post that they don't care who they play or when.
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Post by ging on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:15 am

some of the comments i have read in the newspapers/online indicate that there are coaches who STILL don't understand how districts work. there was actually a coach who claimed that districts will cause MORE conference shuffling. he clearly doesn't understand that conferences (for football) go bye bye in 2021.
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Post by Head Idiot on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:26 am

ging wrote:some of the comments i have read in the newspapers/online indicate that there are coaches who STILL don't understand how districts work. there was actually a coach who claimed that districts will cause MORE conference shuffling. he clearly doesn't understand that conferences (for football) go bye bye in 2021.
Hey, there's a stereotype about football players and coaches for a reason sometimes...
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Post by Coach53 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:36 am

My personal favorite of the new Districts is the one with Plainfield and Edwardsville...Makes TOTAL sense

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Post by general maximus on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:40 am

ging wrote:some of the comments i have read in the newspapers/online indicate that there are coaches who STILL don't understand how districts work. there was actually a coach who claimed that districts will cause MORE conference shuffling. he clearly doesn't understand that conferences (for football) go bye bye in 2021.

Good point Ging.

Maybe this will alleviate the ridiculousness in All Conf "voting". (we had a kid make all area, but not All Conf. He had 7 interceptions, but did not get the votes.)

Additionally, what are teams going to do now that everyone has to play the same schools in districts? Will they actually use those stats to determine All-DISTRICT? I have seen it all too often where teams play garbage Non Con teams and their running backs have 600 yards in those games and count them on their stats. Whereas other teams play some tough competition and their kids get only 100yds.

Districts can mitigate some of these inconsistencies. But we know they will also create some unforeseen and foreseen problems.

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Post by lefty120 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:43 am

Interesting thoughts here from one of the most successful football coaches in our state. Worth a listen.

https://www.channel1450.com/2018/12/18/rochester-football-head-coach-derek-leonard-discusses-ihsa-districts/


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Post by lefty120 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:13 pm

My biggest fear in this was that coaches / administrators would blindly vote simply because of the 'conference reshuffling' issue and not really educate themselves on what this rule is and what it isn't. As close as the vote was, I'm sure there were plenty that voted on both sides that didn't really know what exactly they were getting.

At the end of the day, GM is correct...the democratic vote said what the state wants. I'm obviously against it, but it is what it is. We will make the absolute best of it and still enjoy being a part of the greatest game around. I just have concern for the programs who are already struggling to get numbers and now their travel is increased, local rivalries are gone which encourage kids to play, and school spirit for the football team tapers off with the increased travel and unknown opponents. At the smaller school level, those unknown opponents could be changing every 2 years as teams go to 8 man and the number of fb playing schools changes.

I'll be the first to admit, some people welcome and deal well with change, I am not one of those. I'm glad I have 2 more seasons before this is implemented to acclimate myself to it. I'm sure by then I will have brought myself to the point I'm ready to attack this challenge and continue to grow our program.

As an IHSA FB guy for 3 plus decades, any concern I've voiced here has mainly come from the overall health of our game angle, which I know we all have.

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Post by Head Idiot on Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:25 pm

lefty120 wrote:My biggest fear in this was that coaches / administrators would blindly vote simply because of the 'conference reshuffling' issue and not really educate themselves on what this rule is and what it isn't. As close as the vote was, I'm sure there were plenty that voted on both sides that didn't really know what exactly they were getting.

At the end of the day, GM is correct...the democratic vote said what the state wants. I'm obviously against it, but it is what it is. We will make the absolute best of it and still enjoy being a part of the greatest game around. I just have concern for the programs who are already struggling to get numbers and now their travel is increased, local rivalries are gone which encourage kids to play, and school spirit for the football team tapers off with the increased travel and unknown opponents. At the smaller school level, those unknown opponents could be changing every 2 years as teams go to 8 man and the number of fb playing schools changes.

I'll be the first to admit, some people welcome and deal well with change, I am not one of those. I'm glad I have 2 more seasons before this is implemented to acclimate myself to it. I'm sure by then I will have brought myself to the point I'm ready to attack this challenge and continue to grow our program.

As an IHSA FB guy for 3 plus decades, any concern I've voiced here has mainly come from the overall health of our game angle, which I know we all have.
I'll tell you that pre 2011, I would have been against it as well. But my personal experiences of trying to find games because of conference issues and jumping between 2012-2015 changed my perception of it.
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Post by lefty120 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:41 pm

Understood.

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Post by general maximus on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:40 pm

lefty120 wrote:My biggest fear in this was that coaches / administrators would blindly vote simply because of the 'conference reshuffling' issue and not really educate themselves on what this rule is and what it isn't. As close as the vote was, I'm sure there were plenty that voted on both sides that didn't really know what exactly they were getting.

At the end of the day, GM is correct...the democratic vote said what the state wants. I'm obviously against it, but it is what it is. We will make the absolute best of it and still enjoy being a part of the greatest game around. I just have concern for the programs who are already struggling to get numbers and now their travel is increased, local rivalries are gone which encourage kids to play, and school spirit for the football team tapers off with the increased travel and unknown opponents. At the smaller school level, those unknown opponents could be changing every 2 years as teams go to 8 man and the number of fb playing schools changes.

I'll be the first to admit, some people welcome and deal well with change, I am not one of those. I'm glad I have 2 more seasons before this is implemented to acclimate myself to it. I'm sure by then I will have brought myself to the point I'm ready to attack this challenge and continue to grow our program.

As an IHSA FB guy for 3 plus decades, any concern I've voiced here has mainly come from the overall health of our game angle, which I know we all have.

+1 Like you said, there are certain components that suck for you guys. I totally agree on those points.

New rivalries will be established through the districts. And we will be able to keep some of them. The Coal Bucket here is a big one. Unfortunately in the last few years the strengths of the teams have not matched up well. 2 years ago, they were 9-0, this year, 0-9. But in past years when we both were good, that game was electric like no other.

Coach Leonard, as always, has some great thoughts and perspective based on his situation. One thought I had while he was talking was Could they schedule SHG for a "non district" game many years in advance and then if they were placed in districts together, play them a second time that year??

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Post by dusty7 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:08 pm

Overall a great discussion and all have generated good questions about the change of which many more questions will arise. I believe that in the long run once everything gets figured out it could end up being a good thing for IHSA football. But just like it is now, not everyone will be happy and new issues will always be brought up.

For us I don't think it will be too much of an issue. Our schedule will get a bit easier not playing as many 4A schools and some say that is good but I'd rather play tough schools to prepare for the playoffs. However, it will make it easier to find week 1 and 2 opponents for us as we will most likely keep our rivalrys and won't have the issue of teams not wanting to schedule us for non-con games. We still have week 2 open for next season.

One change that I think will come soon will be to put some weight on the week 1 and 2 games. Someone stated that Iowa used an RPI system which may be a good idea to implement in the near future.

I don't see many coaches sitting kids in those 1st two games as it provides an opportunity to get game experience. However, I can see coaches playing more guys for evaluation purposes and using those games as ways to try new schemes, formations, etc. If it doesn't matter if you win or lose might as well get some game speed practice in win or lose.

One concern I have is the borderline schools that are always jumping classes. That will make it very difficult to schedule games several years in advance. I think it will be common for teams to not know their opponents until March or April.

My biggest concern is the change in how many games kids can play in one week. That is going to drastically change how coaches approach the lower levels and skill and development of those players. I don't think it will be too long until we see a change in this new rule. Our conference changed to Freshman on Friday, True JV (Sophs and Juniors) on Monday. The benefit is that those juniors who don't play significant minutes get some playing time but no practice on Tuesday.
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Post by dusty7 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:29 pm

lefty120 wrote:Interesting thoughts here from one of the most successful football coaches in our state. Worth a listen.

https://www.channel1450.com/2018/12/18/rochester-football-head-coach-derek-leonard-discusses-ihsa-districts/


Definitely has some great insights. I 100% agree with his assessment of some schools shifting thier problems to other schools.
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Post by Teetime on Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm

ging wrote:some of the comments i have read in the newspapers/online indicate that there are coaches who STILL don't understand how districts work. there was actually a coach who claimed that districts will cause MORE conference shuffling. he clearly doesn't understand that conferences (for football) go bye bye in 2021.


I'm not sure that this guy is wrong. They won't be shuffling for football purposes, but they will shuffle. Especially the schools that got out of the correct geographic position just so their football team could win five games. Now there is no reason to be out of position and back they will go.




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Post by Teetime on Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:03 pm

My apologies if this has been addressed.

So will the first two weeks of the football playoffs be a district tourney to get down to one representative from district X, or will the playoff pairing be just like they are now but without the football points that differentiate teams with like records now?

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Post by Teetime on Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:09 pm

I heard there were 3 million illegal aliens that voted in this thing.

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Post by Huck on Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:30 pm

I don't think the last round of conference shuffling will be much. Take the CS8. If Lincoln wants back in, who is out? Does someone have to voluntarily leave? Will they kick someone out? Will they just make it a bigger conference? Each of these possibilities creates its own new headaches that administrators may not want to deal with. Will a few teams move? I think so. But I don't think there will be some massive shake up taking place.

Of course, I never thought Trump would be president either, so..... maybe ignore me.
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Post by Head Idiot on Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:39 pm

Teetime wrote:I heard there were 3 million illegal aliens that voted in this thing.
Mostly in California.
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Post by Head Idiot on Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:40 pm

Huck wrote:I don't think the last round of conference shuffling will be much. Take the CS8. If Lincoln wants back in, who is out? Does someone have to voluntarily leave? Will they kick someone out? Will they just make it a bigger conference? Each of these possibilities creates its own new headaches that administrators may not want to deal with. Will a few teams move? I think so. But I don't think there will be some massive shake up taking place.

Of course, I never thought Trump would be president either, so..... maybe ignore me.
I think they'll just let whoever in. Without football schedules dictating how many teams need to be in a conference, who cares how many are in?
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Post by wolverine55 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:14 pm

BTW, kudos to this passing and the Bears having a good season as those things generated much-needed football discussion on here!!
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Post by Bighitter11 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:12 pm

Is IHSA paying for District Championship trophies or do we have to buy our own
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Post by ramblinman on Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:09 pm

lefty120 wrote:Wolverine, how's your travel? Many potential districts in Illinois have some awfully hefty average travel times. I'll also be interested to see how much pull the Chicago Catholic League has when a number of their teams have to travel into the city to play Public League teams.

The suburban CCL teams (Loyola, Providence, Marmion, Montini, Fenwick, St. Laurence) are already travelling into the city to play city CCL teams (Bro Rice, Rita, Mt Carmel, DeLaSalle, Ignatius, Leo, DePaul Prep etc.). From a purely travel perspective, what's the difference?
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Post by lefty120 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:39 pm

Good point...thanks for adding that. Are they concerned about losing rivalries that are decades deep in the Catholic League? I went to school at Elmhurst with a ton of deep rooted CCL guys who loved talking about those rivalries and I enjoyed listening. Some of those Id have to think are in jeopardy.

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