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Coronavirus IV

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Post by Head Idiot Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:11 am

tps wrote:looks like cali opening.
newsome didn't want to share the data..."too confusing" ha ha ha
https://krcrtv.com/news/local/key-california-covid-19-data-kept-hidden-to-not-cause-confusion
#Transparent
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Post by ramblinman Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:54 am

dusty7 wrote:
ramblinman wrote:

Last spring, the Illinois virus numbers were crazy small relative to the current situation, yet JB took us into lockdown mode.  We lifted the lockdown when the numbers were much higher than they were when JB instituted the lockdown.  Why lift them then?  Why didn't that create the perception then that he agreed with Trump?  Answer:  He lifted them because of pressure from anti lockdown people.  SAME THING IS HAPPENING NOW.

Ummm, the anti-lockdown people you speak of have been applying pressure since the start and they have not stopped.  I do not think he buckled in June, I think he saw numbers were low and we could get some things opened up. This wasn't giving in to lock-downers, it was in hope of getting people back to work and getting the economy rolling again.

Our situation now is worse than in June and he changed his mind.  Explain that one. The anti-lockdowners were very vocal in November when numbers were the same as now when he chose to lockdown and he didn't buckle then, so why buckle now? Explain that one.  

You are saying he changed the metrics to appease the anti-lockdowners after 11 months, is that correct?


Why can't you accept your own explanation:  "he saw the numbers were low and we could get some things opened up."  Instead you are fixated on the timing of the restrictions being relaxed relative to the inauguration. Sure the numbers are worse than they were at other times, but some of them are better than they have been recently. It's not like there's no precedent for relaxing restrictions at higher levels than when they were instituted (see last spring/early summer).
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Post by dusty7 Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:58 am

[quote="ramblinman"][quote="dusty7"]
ramblinman wrote:

Why can't you accept your own explanation:  "he saw the numbers were low and we could get some things opened up."  Instead you are fixated on the timing of the restrictions being relaxed relative to the inauguration.  


Why can't you answer my question?

Did he simply change the metrics to appease the anti-lockdowners?  Is that the only influence that caused him to change his mind?

I am not fixated on the timing of the changes and the inauguration but it is a bit curious why the change has happened.  Numbers have decreased as of late but are not as low as they were when more strict mitigations were in place. That is a fact. The "he saw numbers were low" doesn't mean anything because our numbers are not low in relation to the entire virus. They are the same as they were in Nov when he shut it all down.
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Post by ramblinman Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:39 pm

dusty7 wrote:
ramblinman wrote:

Why can't you accept your own explanation:  "he saw the numbers were low and we could get some things opened up."  Instead you are fixated on the timing of the restrictions being relaxed relative to the inauguration.  


Why can't you answer my question?

Did he simply change the metrics to appease the anti-lockdowners?  Is that the only influence that caused him to change his mind?

I am not fixated on the timing of the changes and the inauguration but it is a bit curious why the chan.  The "he saw numbers were low" doesn't mean anything because our numbers are not low, they are the same as they were in Nov when he shut it all down.
And the numbers  when he relaxed restrictions last summer were far worse than they were in March when he shut it all down.

Don't you see what is happening here?  We are becoming accustomed/numb to the numbers.  As the pandemic drags on and we experience new spikes, our collective tolerance for what is acceptable or unacceptable rises.  It happened in the summer, and it is happening now.  

We had roughly 3,300 cases yesterday, but we feel pretty good about that because of where the numbers were in November and December.  If we had been talking about 3,300 daily new cases last spring when we experienced our first spike, that would have been the second highest daily new case count of that spring spike.  You want to talk about moving goalposts?  How about our own collective tolerance goalposts?

If I had said last May that, 8 months from then we would be thinking that 3,300 daily new cases statewide would be welcomed as a sign that things were getting better, the usual suspects here, who have downplayed the severity of the pandemic from the start, would have accused me of fear mongering.

Lastly, what numbers are you referring to when you say that we are the same now as they were in November when he shut it all down?  You certainly can't be referring to daily new case numbers, which are down SUBSTANTIALLY from where they were in mid-November when he ordered Tier 3 mitigations statewide.


Last edited by ramblinman on Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by OSUBucks Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm

Am I the only one on here that wasn’t aware that there are dogs trained to detect COVID? The Miami Heat are using dogs to screen fans for COVID before entering the building. There are several airports around the world using dogs for this purpose too. I wonder if these dogs are required to wear masks? Lol
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Post by tps Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:13 pm

"If we fail to act, there will be a wave of evictions and foreclosures in the coming months as this pandemic rages on, because there's nothing we can do to change the trajectory of the pandemic in the next several months," Biden said.

wut? i don't remember hearing this during the campaign.
he said that Friday, then he took the weekend off. gotta recharge those batteries....

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Post by dusty7 Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:14 pm

ramblinman wrote:
dusty7 wrote:
ramblinman wrote:

Why can't you accept your own explanation:  "he saw the numbers were low and we could get some things opened up."  Instead you are fixated on the timing of the restrictions being relaxed relative to the inauguration.  


Why can't you answer my question?

Did he simply change the metrics to appease the anti-lockdowners?  Is that the only influence that caused him to change his mind?

I am not fixated on the timing of the changes and the inauguration but it is a bit curious why the chan.  The "he saw numbers were low" doesn't mean anything because our numbers are not low, they are the same as they were in Nov when he shut it all down.
And the numbers  when he relaxed restrictions last summer were far worse than they were in March when he shut it all down.

Don't you see what is happening here?  We are becoming accustomed/numb to the numbers.  As the pandemic drags on and we experience new spikes, our collective tolerance for what is acceptable or unacceptable rises.  It happened in the summer, and it is happening now.  

We had roughly 3,300 cases yesterday, but we feel pretty good about that because of where the numbers were in November and December.  If we had been talking about 3,300 daily new cases last spring when we experienced our first spike, that would have been the second highest daily new case count of that spring spike.  You want to talk about moving goalposts?  How about our own collective tolerance goalposts?

If I had said last May that, 8 months from then we would be thinking that 3,300 daily new cases statewide would be welcomed as a sign that things were getting better, the usual suspects here, who have downplayed the severity of the pandemic from the start, would have accused me of fear mongering.

Lastly, what numbers are you referring to when you say that we are the same now as they were in November when he shut it all down?  You certainly can't be referring to daily new case numbers, which are down SUBSTANTIALLY from where they were in mid-November when he ordered Tier 3 mitigations statewide.

Total number of cases doesn't mean jack without context. High cases in the Spring mean nothing when very few were being tested, of course if we are testing 100,000 instead of 10,000 you are going to see more cases. 3,300 cases now is not near as bad as 3,300 cases in April.

We should have had the collective tolerance back when this all started. The focus has always been on the wrong metrics, even you say positivity rate is a terrible metric, which it is. As I have stated before, the most important metric that should guide mitigations is the availability of hospital beds.

Yes total number of cases are down from November but other metrics used to make decisions are not far from where they were. That could be due to a lag in reporting.

No matter how you take it, JB changed the metrics, maybe it's because of the improvement we have seen or maybe it's because of politics. I think we all know it's a combination of both. To say that politics has not influenced his decision to some point is ignorant and to say it is entirely based on politics is ignorant as well. But politics has played a huge role in the pandemic response across the country and has definitely influenced JB, along with financial gain.
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Post by general maximus Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:16 pm

Apply Occam's razor to this discussion. "The simplest answer is usually true"

My mama had a saying that I have really come to appreciate. "Don't attempt to rationalize the behavior or irrational people. If you try to do that, it makes you think irrationally."

And my new favorite "Let's not pretend to not know what we already know"

It all comes down to this simple statement.
Nearly every single one of these politicians are F'ing dishonest.


When we all come to that understanding, we can get somewhere. Until then we will be fighting the detail of their dishonesty instead of dealing with the real problems they create for US.

For those of you that think JB did all of this with the sole purpose of saving lives, REALITY IS NOT ACHIEVABLE BY YOU. Sorry, my 2 cents.

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Post by Head Idiot Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:04 pm

Not that we haven't been making shit up the whole time, but this one's pretty incredible-
Fauci said it is 'common sense' to wear 2 masks to stop the spread of COVID-19. Here's how to do it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-wearing-2-masks-more-effective-at-stopping-covid-19-2021-1
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Post by Head Idiot Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:05 pm

OSUBucks wrote:Am I the only one on here that wasn’t aware that there are dogs trained to detect COVID?  The Miami Heat are using dogs to screen fans for COVID before entering the building. There are several airports around the world using dogs for this purpose too. I wonder if these dogs are required to wear masks? Lol
They probably aren't trained to do crap.

But it makes people feel "safer". Like the guy at Walmart with the IPad that just stands there as you walk in. It's a support blanket.
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Post by dusty7 Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:28 pm

The prescription for COVID is like those drugs that have a ton of side effects. But I guess it's all necessary for a virus with a 99% survival rate and few of the mitigations did anything to protect the most vulnerable.

https://fortune.com/2021/01/06/covid-pandemic-recession-unemployment-mortality-rate-increase/


Last edited by dusty7 on Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Head Idiot Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:40 pm

dusty7 wrote:The prescription for COVID is like those drugs that have a ton of side effects.  But I guess it's all necessary for a virus with a 99% survival rate.

https://fortune.com/2021/01/06/covid-pandemic-recession-unemployment-mortality-rate-increase/
They don't care.

It's about the "optics" of it.
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Post by dusty7 Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:52 pm

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Post by general maximus Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:08 pm

Head Idiot wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:Am I the only one on here that wasn’t aware that there are dogs trained to detect COVID?  The Miami Heat are using dogs to screen fans for COVID before entering the building. There are several airports around the world using dogs for this purpose too. I wonder if these dogs are required to wear masks? Lol
They probably aren't trained to do crap.

But it makes people feel "safer". Like the guy at Walmart with the IPad that just stands there as you walk in. It's a support blanket.

My band teacher coined the term for all the PPE, Sanitizer, Floor Stickers, One way traffic, extended quarntanteen, constant temp checks and everything else as "Security Theatrics"

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Post by general maximus Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:14 pm


As others said when it was convenient, "IT'S SCIENCE!"


That guy on twitter better be careful, he might get his account deleted because he is promoting hate speech and hurting feelings.

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Post by net Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:10 pm

so my buddy i teach pe with went to get his first shot today. he had an appointment at idph on south grand in springfield. he pulled up, was never asked for an id and the girl who gave him his shot wore no gloves. he said none of the workers were wearing gloves. wtf?
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Post by Head Idiot Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:10 pm

An Illinois state representative says data and science show Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s COVID-19 mitigation, which was among the strictest in the nation, may have made the death rate worse in Illinois compared to neighboring states that had fewer economic restrictions.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/despite-being-10th-most-restrictive-state-illinois-covid-19-death-rate-higher-than-all-neighbors/article_7c88a1d6-6012-11eb-ae9f-439f68b60f8e.html
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Post by dusty7 Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:05 pm

Head Idiot wrote:
An Illinois state representative says data and science show Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s COVID-19 mitigation, which was among the strictest in the nation, may have made the death rate worse in Illinois compared to neighboring states that had fewer economic restrictions.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/despite-being-10th-most-restrictive-state-illinois-covid-19-death-rate-higher-than-all-neighbors/article_7c88a1d6-6012-11eb-ae9f-439f68b60f8e.html

It's because these measures did little to nothing to protect the most vulnerable people. What was done for the most vulnerable was too little and several months late.
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Post by Head Idiot Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:42 am

Macon County reported 12 cases today. We've been under 20 for 3 straight days.

Our dark, dark winter continues...
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Post by dusty7 Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:30 pm

And the left wants people to celebrate Cuomo's response to COVID
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/28/covid-deaths-ny-nursing-homes-undercounted-ag-tish-james/4292424001/

On 1/2/2021, the US had it's the highest number of positive COVID cases with 300,282. 26 days later, we had 152,478 cases which is a 49.2% decrease in 26 days.

I would love to see the science and data on the causes of this quick decrease in numbers. Was it the US masking up in December? Have the Ct. values for determining positive cases been changed? What a dark winter indeed....I guess we just have to wait until it gets worse.
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Post by Head Idiot Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:32 pm

dusty7 wrote:And the left wants people to celebrate Cuomo's response to COVID
He currently has a best selling book on leadership...
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Post by ramblinman Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:44 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/americas/peru-lockdown-second-wave-intl/index.html

Wait, what?

I thought lockdowns were a politically motivated U.S. thing only.  Or perhaps all these other countries that are in lockdown mode are all doing it for political purposes just like I'm hearing is the case in the blue states only. Did it ever occur to any of you that red states not under lockdown are that way for political purposes as well?

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Post by dusty7 Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:51 pm

ramblinman wrote:
I thought lockdowns were a politically motivated U.S. thing only.  Or perhaps all these other countries that are in lockdown mode are all doing it for political purposes just like I'm hearing is the case in the blue states only. Did it ever occur to any of you that red states not under lockdown are that way for political purposes as well?


The whole isn't 100% political but politics have definitely played a role in the difference in mitigations from state to states. I don't know if anyone here ever suggested that politics were not at play in the red states not having as strict mitigations as the blue states. It's obvious politics were at play in both decisions. What I have been saying is here in Illinois the political change in the past week has had an effect on our mitigations but it is also in combination in the fast decline not cases. I'm more curious in finding out why cases are falling so fast. It sure isn't the vaccine and I'm going to guess the threshold for what is considered as a positive test by labs was moved.

As for Europe, are they seeing the "dark winter" that was expected or not? If the spread is bad than that might explain why they have the lockdowns. What are their hospitalization numbers, are they near capacity? If they are at a point where the US is with a 50+% decline in cases over 25 days or so why are they continuing the lockdowns? Need more information than what what level of lockdown these countries are in.
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Post by Teetime Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:47 pm



I read that article and I don't see where it says that "the left wants people to celebrate Cuomo's response to COVID"

I'm on the left, I certainly don't want that, the NYS Attorney General is on the left, I doubt she wants that. In fact, the article says this:

"The findings were seized on by a bipartisan group of state and federal lawmakers, many of who had for months railed against how Cuomo handled the virus' spread in nursing homes."

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Post by dusty7 Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:47 pm

Teetime wrote:


I read that article and I don't see where it says that "the left wants people to celebrate Cuomo's response to COVID"

I'm on the left, I certainly don't want that, the NYS Attorney General is on the left, I doubt she wants that. In fact, the article says this:

"The findings were seized on by a bipartisan group of state and federal lawmakers, many of who had for months railed against how Cuomo handled the virus' spread in nursing homes."

I never said that it said that in the article. It's is an observation by the constant media coverage (CNN and MSNBC) celebrating how he handled COVID.
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