Re: R.I.P. Republican Party

by ramblinman Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:36 am

dusty7 wrote: A released video isn't public? So he has to do it in person to mean anything?

What released video? Of Trump taking responsibility? Where? When?

by dusty7 Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:42 am

ramblinman wrote:
dusty7 wrote: A released video isn't public? So he has to do it in person to mean anything?

What released video? Of Trump taking responsibility? Where? When?

He has accepted defeat - https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/trump-acknowledges-election-defeat-capitol-violence/

by tps Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:10 am

sedition
Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080

by ramblinman Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:21 pm

dusty7 wrote:
ramblinman wrote:
dusty7 wrote: A released video isn't public? So he has to do it in person to mean anything?

What released video? Of Trump taking responsibility? Where? When?

He has accepted defeat - https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/trump-acknowledges-election-defeat-capitol-violence/

Accepting defeat and taking responsibility for what happened last week are two different things.

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:40 pm

Help me out. Took a break from the board and I don't wish to read 11 pages of this topic, because the two I read have been enough. So for anyone who has kept up with all 11, has anyone over the course of these 11 pages, supported what happened at the Capitol with anything other than comparing it to the BLM protests, like it seems everywhere else I have read? Or has someone actually looked at this event individually and deemed it ok? Just curious. Thanks.

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:48 pm

Huck wrote:Help me out. Took a break from the board and I don't wish to read 11 pages of this topic, because the two I read have been enough. So for anyone who has kept up with all 11, has anyone over the course of these 11 pages, supported what happened at the Capitol with anything other than comparing it to the BLM protests, like it seems everywhere else I have read? Or has someone actually looked at this event individually and deemed it ok? Just curious. Thanks.

I don't think anyone has said they approve of the actions at the Capitol. Mostly just comparing the two sides of the riot coin.

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:49 pm

Thanks. I can understand anyone who says both were bad. I do not understand when someone uses one to justify the other.

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:52 pm

Huck wrote:Thanks. I can understand anyone who says both were bad. I do not understand when someone uses one to justify the other.

I think it's more of wanting to point out the hypocrisy of thought that one riot is noble and honorable and worthy of celebration, while another is Un-American and reprehensible.

And, which one is which depends entirely on your political affiliation (although I haven't seen any Republicans supporting what happened a week ago).

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:56 pm

I don't believe a majority of Democrats support the riots that occurred during BLM protests either. I don't. I understood them, though.

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:01 pm

Huck wrote:I don't believe a majority of Democrats support the riots that occurred during BLM protests either. I don't. I understood them, though.

I don't think the rank and file voter does, but I think the party's leading politicians did/do. They certainly didn't do much to discourage them.

by dusty7 Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:23 pm

Head Idiot wrote:
Huck wrote:Thanks. I can understand anyone who says both were bad. I do not understand when someone uses one to justify the other.
I think it's more of wanting to point out the hypocrisy of thought that one riot is noble and honorable and worthy of celebration, while another is Un-American and reprehensible.

And, which one is which depends entirely on your political affiliation (although I haven't seen any Republicans supporting what happened a week ago).

But the media seems to be pushing the idea that all Republicans approve of the actions at the Capitol and all Republicans are Trump supporters. But this is where the two-party system has gotten us. Both sides will bicker back and forth and refuse to work together to solve the underlying causes of why people felt the need to partake in these actions which goes a lot further than Trump's rhetoric and the most recent election. But let's waste time and resources to prove a point that the Dems were finally able to get him out of the office with only a few days left.

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:24 pm

Perhaps. I guess it depends on what it means to discourage. I'm not sure what a politician can do to discourage rioters beyond telling them to stop and that violence isn't condoned without sounding like it is being dragged out of them or that they were forced to say it by their son-in-law. They certainly aren't going to don riot gear and stand a post.

Just out of curiosity, what more should politicians have done, in your opinion?

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:30 pm

Huck wrote:Perhaps. I guess it depends on what it means to discourage. I'm not sure what a politician can do to discourage rioters beyond telling them to stop and that violence isn't condoned without sounding like it is being dragged out of them or that they were forced to say it by their son-in-law. They certainly aren't going to don riot gear and stand a post.

Just out of curiosity, what more should politicians have done, in your opinion?

I don't necessarily disagree with you on your first paragraph, but one thing they could do to discourage it is not bail them out of jail-

R.I.P. Republican Party - Page 11 20210110

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:38 pm

You could also just quit giving in to them-
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/493642-396291-91-of-portland-protest-arrests-not-being-prosecuted

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:41 pm

dusty7 wrote:But the media seems to be pushing the idea that all Republicans approve of the actions at the Capitol and all Republicans are Trump supporters. But this is where the two-party system has gotten us. Both sides will bicker back and forth and refuse to work together to solve the underlying causes of why people felt the need to partake in these actions which goes a lot further than Trump's rhetoric and the most recent election. But let's waste time and resources to prove a point that the Dems were finally able to get him out of the office with only a few days left.

I hear you, but I don't agree with you. I think some Republicans have a persecution complex. I don't think the media pushes this at all. Sure, the media is attempting to crucify Trump and anyone who objected to the election results, but this is hardly ALL Republicans. I read an article the other day that solidified why I think Trump needs to be impeached again, and I wish I could find it to link it. It has nothing to do with stripping him of pension, security, etc. Most, if not all, Democratic Congresspersons and some Republican Congresspersons want Trump out of office because they feel like he sent an armed gang to come get them and put a stop to what they view is their legitimate purpose as outlined by the Constitution. Trump says that they shouldn't because it will make more people angry. The article equated it to WW2. The equivalence would be that we shouldn't seek to fight Japan after Pearl Harbor because it would make Japan mad. They are already mad. Failing to act would embolden them. Those who believe in Law and Order feel there should be consequences for your actions. That should include the president. I understand that some feel that the president has done nothing wrong. I understand being against impeachment due to that, though I don't agree with it.

And not wanting to spend time on impeachment because his time in office is almost up, to me, is like telling your kids not to play hard during a blow out. You want them to go hard all the time they are out there because it is their job. You as a coach decide how you want things to go, and they do their damndest to carry it out. The people are the coaches of the politicians. We should want them to take their jobs seriously all the time, not just when certain dates are closer or farther. We as their coaches should decide how we want things to go, and they carry it out. If we dislike their attitude or effort, we can yank them from the game at the next election, be it primary or general. I think sending Trump this message is worth it, regardless of how much it costs or how long it takes. And I am not interested in sending a message to Republicans in general. Only Trump and anyone who would seek to act like him.

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:43 pm

Granted, I don't recall the exact circumstances surrounding Harris' tweet, but I don't see her asking for people to bail out rioters. Just protesters. A lot of people were getting arrested who were just peacefully protesting.

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:47 pm

Huck wrote:Granted, I don't recall the exact circumstances surrounding Harris' tweet, but I don't see her asking for people to bail out rioters. Just protesters. A lot of people were getting arrested who were just peacefully protesting.

That organization ended up bailing out rioters. That tweet is still up. She did nothing to correct the situation after it was shown they were bailing out the rioters. By today's political standards, that's just flat out endorsing violence.

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:48 pm

I can't read the article about Portland due to not having permissions. The wikipedia article (never a great source btw) is full of conflicting reports. Two sides describe the situation on the ground very differently. If a bunch of people show up, refuse to leave, but aren't violent, what should be done? Sounds like they chose to leave them be. As violence increased, their footprint got smaller and smaller until they decided enough was enough and kicked them all out. It sounds to me like they gave in to the protesters, but did not give in to those committing violence. Quite the opposite, in fact.

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:50 pm

Huck wrote: And not wanting to spend time on impeachment because his time in office is almost up, to me, is like telling your kids not to play hard during a blow out. You want them to go hard all the time they are out there because it is their job. You as a coach decide how you want things to go, and they do their damndest to carry it out. The people are the coaches of the politicians. We should want them to take their jobs seriously all the time, not just when certain dates are closer or farther. We as their coaches should decide how we want things to go, and they carry it out. If we dislike their attitude or effort, we can yank them from the game at the next election, be it primary or general. I think sending Trump this message is worth it, regardless of how much it costs or how long it takes. And I am not interested in sending a message to Republicans in general. Only Trump and anyone who would seek to act like him.

A more appropriate football comparison with the prospect of impeachment is the Dems are calling a TO with the ball at the 5yd line with 30 seconds left up 48-6 so they can score another TD.

It serves no practical purpose other than to piss people off and prolong the agony.

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:52 pm

Huck wrote:I can't read the article about Portland due to not having permissions. The wikipedia article (never a great source btw) is full of conflicting reports. Two sides describe the situation on the ground very differently. If a bunch of people show up, refuse to leave, but aren't violent, what should be done? Sounds like they chose to leave them be. As violence increased, their footprint got smaller and smaller until they decided enough was enough and kicked them all out. It sounds to me like they gave in to the protesters, but did not give in to those committing violence. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I just put in the Wikipedia link to reference the overall situation of CHOP (and really, with today's media, is Wikipedia really that untrustworthy a source?).

So, if I come over and just take over your house and property, but I'm not violent about it, that's cool?

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:54 pm

Head Idiot wrote:That organization ended up bailing out rioters. That tweet is still up. She did nothing to correct the situation after it was shown they were bailing out the rioters. By today's political standards, that's just flat out endorsing violence.

Okay. Not bailing rioters out of jail would be something politicians should not do. I agree, though I don't agree that Harris was doing that.

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:58 pm

Huck wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:That organization ended up bailing out rioters. That tweet is still up. She did nothing to correct the situation after it was shown they were bailing out the rioters. By today's political standards, that's just flat out endorsing violence.

Okay. Not bailing rioters out of jail would be something politicians should not do. I agree, though I don't agree that Harris was doing that.

Maybe she wasn't, but if we're going to say Trump endorses a wide array of behaviors because he specifically doesn't single them out and publicly denounce them, this is a flat out endorsement by Harris.

And here's an article about the Seattle situation where the mayor doesn't sound too derogatory about the CHOP.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/502468-seattle-mayor-says-she-doesnt-know-how-long-chaz-occupation

And you want to talk about insurrectionists? These people "seceded" from the United States.

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:59 pm

With me? Absolutely not. But, I don't know why people would take over my house to protest systemic racism in the police force. Supposing they did, and were peaceful, and so numerous that removing them risks escalating a situation unnecessarily that can be solved by waiting them out. Should we hurt/kill a bunch of people so I can have my house back a month earlier? Probably not. Despite how upset I might be about not having my house.

by Huck Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:01 pm

Head Idiot wrote:Maybe she wasn't, but if we're going to say Trump endorses a wide array of behaviors because he specifically doesn't single them out and publicly denounce them, this is a flat out endorsement by Harris.

Come on, you were doing so well! You can't say that Trump is okay because someone else did it first, if you think the person who did it first was wrong!

by Head Idiot Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:02 pm

Huck wrote:With me? Absolutely not. But, I don't know why people would take over my house to protest systemic racism in the police force. Supposing they did, and were peaceful, and so numerous that removing them risks escalating a situation unnecessarily that can be solved by waiting them out. Should we hurt/kill a bunch of people so I can have my house back a month earlier? Probably not. Despite how upset I might be about not having my house.

Maybe a more appropriate description would be, would it be cool if I commandeered your home, spray painted profane/derogatory messages all over it, completely trashed it, took all your possessions and shit on your floor?

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