Re: Minneapolis Officer arrested.

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:26 pm

OSUBucks wrote: Reforms, some of which Delta mentioned, are needed. Minneapolis isn't talking about that though, they want to disband the entire police force. Reform are one thing, a knee jerk reaction is another.

To be fair, the Minneapolis City Council is not proposing that the police force be defunded and nothing would take it's place.

They are a little smarter than that.

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:28 pm

I can't help but wonder if "reform" in these police departments aren't along the line of the reforms taking place in some high schools. Where essentially crime isn't any less, they just don't charge or punish anyone because they're doing "restorative justice".

Violence and discipline issues aren't any less in the Decatur schools (some I've talked to say it's worse), but they just don't follow the discipline protocol they used to. So, in paper, the problem has gotten better.

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:29 pm

Teetime wrote:
OSUBucks wrote: Reforms, some of which Delta mentioned, are needed. Minneapolis isn't talking about that though, they want to disband the entire police force. Reform are one thing, a knee jerk reaction is another.

To be fair, the Minneapolis City Council is not proposing that the police force be defunded and nothing would take it's place.

They are a little smarter than that.

What are they proposing? Because I haven't seen anything on that.

This is from CNN. I'm struggling to see anything resembling a plan or proposal.

CNN wrote:
"We committed to dismantling policing as we know it in the city of Minneapolis and to rebuild with our community a new model of public safety that actually keeps our community safe," Council President Lisa Bender told CNN.
With nine votes the city council would have a veto-proof supermajority of the council's 13 members, Bender said.
Sunday's pledge was an acknowledgment that the current system is not working, Bender said.
"(We need) to listen, especially to our black leaders, to our communities of color, for whom policing is not working and to really let the solutions lie in our community," she said.
Pressed for details on what the dismantling might look like, Bender told CNN she was looking to shift police funding toward community-based strategies and that the city council would discuss how to replace the current police department.

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:37 pm

Head Idiot wrote:What are they proposing? Because I haven't seen anything on that.

I'm assuming there will be meetings and discussions that include all of the parties that are concerned...here is what the City Council President (Bender) has said:

'Sunday's pledge was an acknowledgment that the current system is not working, Bender said.
"(We need) to listen, especially to our black leaders, to our communities of color, for whom policing is not working and to really let the solutions lie in our community," she said.
Pressed for details on what the dismantling might look like, Bender told CNN she was looking to shift police funding toward community-based strategies and that the city council would discuss how to replace the current police department.

"The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," she added.

Bender and other council members analyzed the nature of 911 calls by constituents, she said, and found most were for mental health services, health and EMT and fire services.
The nine council members made the announcement at a community rally in Minneapolis. News of the announcement was first reported by The Appeal.
Calls by some to defund or outright abolish police departments have grown in the wake of Floyd's death and nationwide protests against police brutality.
City council members had previously said they would take steps to dismantle the police department, including Bender, who tweeted earlier this week, "Yes. We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department and replace it with a transformative new model of public safety."'

I'm sure that something "transformative" will take some time. You didn't expect that they would formulate a whole new policing strategy over these two weeks that have passed since the murder, did you?

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:06 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:What are they proposing? Because I haven't seen anything on that.

I'm assuming there will be meetings and discussions that include all of the parties that are concerned...here is what the City Council President (Bender) has said:

'Sunday's pledge was an acknowledgment that the current system is not working, Bender said.
"(We need) to listen, especially to our black leaders, to our communities of color, for whom policing is not working and to really let the solutions lie in our community," she said.
Pressed for details on what the dismantling might look like, Bender told CNN she was looking to shift police funding toward community-based strategies and that the city council would discuss how to replace the current police department.

"The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," she added.

Bender and other council members analyzed the nature of 911 calls by constituents, she said, and found most were for mental health services, health and EMT and fire services.
The nine council members made the announcement at a community rally in Minneapolis. News of the announcement was first reported by The Appeal.
Calls by some to defund or outright abolish police departments have grown in the wake of Floyd's death and nationwide protests against police brutality.
City council members had previously said they would take steps to dismantle the police department, including Bender, who tweeted earlier this week, "Yes. We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department and replace it with a transformative new model of public safety."'

I'm sure that something "transformative" will take some time. You didn't expect that they would formulate a whole new policing strategy over these two weeks that have passed since the murder, did you?

So, they don't have any idea. Sounds like a plan.

by OSUBucks Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:37 pm

They don't have a plan, they just interviewed a guy on TV. All he said is that they want to go with community based policing and no cops.

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:45 pm

WTF, you guys understand these things take time and consensus building, right? You read this above? "The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," she added.

You don't just invent a new system of law enforcement in a week.

Here you go:

https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:47 pm

Teetime wrote:WTF, you guys understand these things take time and consensus building, right?

You don't just invent a new system of law enforcement in a week.

Here you go:

https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

So, you can get rid of the status quo for 200+ years in a heartbeat, but expecting at least a shred of a plan other than PC power word bingo is impatient?

Got it.

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:49 pm

Teetime wrote:WTF, you guys understand these things take time and consensus building, right? You read this above? "The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," she added.

You don't just invent a new system of law enforcement in a week.

Here you go:

https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

That is not a plan. That is desired reforms. That in no way addresses what you do after you disband the department.

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:50 pm

Head Idiot wrote:So, you can get rid of the status quo for 200+ years in a heartbeat, but expecting at least a shred of a plan other than PC power word bingo is impatient?

You didn't read this?

"The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," she added.

Nobody is getting rid of anything in a heartbeat.

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:51 pm

Head Idiot wrote:That is not a plan. That is desired reforms. That in no way addresses what you do after you disband the department.

Again, they are smart people.

They won't replace anything until the replacement is up and running.

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:53 pm

Head Idiot wrote:That is not a plan. That is desired reforms.

Exactly. A starting point. Nobody said they were finished with a plan.

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:53 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:That is not a plan. That is desired reforms. That in no way addresses what you do after you disband the department.

Again, they are smart people.

They won't replace anything until the replacement is up and running.

And you know they're smart people because why? They won an election?

Bruce Rauner won an election. Donald Trump won an election. Are they smart people to you?

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:54 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:That is not a plan. That is desired reforms.

Exactly. A starting point. Nobody said they were finished with a plan.

That you can do without disbanding your department.

The entire thing is a PR stunt to placate voters. Just like Ellison elevating the charges (which make it harder to get a conviction BTW).

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:08 pm

Head Idiot wrote:The entire thing is a PR stunt to placate voters.

Which you would know how?

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:10 pm

Head Idiot wrote:
That you can do without disbanding your department.

Exactly what they are doing. They will formulate a plan without disbanding the police department.

Then...we will see.

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:14 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:The entire thing is a PR stunt to placate voters.

Which you would know how?

For the same reason you know they're smart and have a plan.

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:15 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:
That you can do without disbanding your department.

Exactly what they are doing. They will formulate a plan without disbanding the police department.

Then...we will see.

So, essentially you're admitting it's a PR stunt, with no plan, that will end up with the police force still intact with "policy changes" and new training?

You still didn't answer why you have so much faith in these people.

by OSUBucks Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:59 pm

This is the Democrats police reform act. I think there's some things in there that could help prevent more situations like what happened to George Floyd. It certainly makes more sense than saying hey lets disband the police force.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/newsworldpolitics/justice-in-policing-act-whats-in-the-democratic-police-reform-bill/ar-BB15cSqL

by Teetime Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:42 pm

Head Idiot wrote:You still didn't answer why you have so much faith in these people.

Because I have been to Minneapolis many times and it’s a wonderful city that has been well planned. They attract lots of businesses and jobs, have a great downtown and a fantastic cultural experience.

How do you know it’s all a PR stunt?

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:45 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:You still didn't answer why you have so much faith in these people.

Because I have been to Minneapolis many times and it’s a wonderful city that has been well planned. They attract lots of businesses and jobs, have a great downtown and a fantastic cultural experience.

How do you know it’s all a PR stunt?

All things none of the current council members had anything to do with.

A lifetime of listening to politicians talk and rarely ever seeing that followed through. Remember when you and Obama told me Obamacare would lower health care costs? That was a good one.

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:50 pm

Even JB Pritzker thinks this "defund" the police movement is misguided-
https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-jb-pritzker-defunding-police-20200608-uszh4ez74vferdfjvxcqk7lofu-story.html

by Head Idiot Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:53 pm

Teetime wrote:

Because I have been to Minneapolis many times and it’s a wonderful city that has been well planned. They attract lots of businesses and jobs, have a great downtown and a fantastic cultural experience.

I have been to the US many times in my life and I think it is the best country possible. It's economy is the strongest in the world and offers cultural experiences and freedoms unable to get anywhere else in the world. Therefore, I have utmost faith that Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell are smart people who will think everything through and come up with a great plan.

See how stupid that rationale is?

by OSUBucks Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:07 pm

I didn't realize how dangerous a city Minneapolis was. It actually ranks one spot ahead of Chicago. The rape and robbery rates are especially bad. Being a cop in that city can't be easy. I can understand that people are hurting and want changes made. Making a decision so soon after the tragedy is a decision that is directed by the emotions of the moment, not one that is well reasoned.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/14/

by Teetime Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:32 am

Head Idiot wrote:
Teetime wrote:

Because I have been to Minneapolis many times and it’s a wonderful city that has been well planned. They attract lots of businesses and jobs, have a great downtown and a fantastic cultural experience.
I have been to the US many times in my life and I think it is the best country possible. It's economy is the strongest in the world and offers cultural experiences and freedoms unable to get anywhere else in the world. Therefore, I have utmost faith that Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell are smart people who will think everything through and come up with a great plan.

See how stupid that rationale is?

Why do you argue about such ignorant stuff?

You are saying that basing my opinion on past experience is stupid but that your low opinion of things a politician says is based on your lifetime of experience...which makes sense to you somehow.

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