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Minneapolis Officer arrested.

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Post by Head Idiot on Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:47 pm

Not so fast on the racist whites shooting or killing every black man they can-

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/
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Post by 19delta on Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:50 pm

Seriously...why would cops oppose having to wear bodycams when executing a high-risk, no-knock warrant? What do they want to hide?

https://www.theroot.com/louisville-city-council-moves-forward-with-breonnas-law-1843910256
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Post by OSUBucks on Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:01 pm

I guess the Chicago PD hasn't had time to reflect yet on the George Floyd incident and are still acting like Neanderthals. SMFH

https://capitolfax.com/2020/06/04/here-comes-another-lawsuit/
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Post by BirdWatcher on Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:09 pm

19delta wrote:Something else to consider is the length of training. For example, in the US, it takes, on average, about 5 months for a trainee to become an officer. In Germany, it takes something like 4 years.

I think it takes three years of "training" to become a waitress in Germany. You get fast-tracked -- college or vocation -- at a very early age in Germany.

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Post by 19delta on Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:07 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:
19delta wrote:Something else to consider is the length of training. For example, in the US, it takes, on average, about 5 months for a trainee to become an officer. In Germany, it takes something like 4 years.

I think it takes three years of "training" to become a waitress in Germany.  You get fast-tracked -- college or vocation -- at a very early age in Germany.

Yet American police resort to the use of lethal force at an incredibly higher rate than German police. Is it at least POSSIBLE that German police officers are exposed to a more holistic approach to law enforcement, considering they train for their vocation 6x longer than their American counterparts?

I have no statistics on comparing the use of lethal force between American and German waitresses. I have eaten at a few diners that were pretty sketchy, though...does that count? Laughing
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Post by BirdWatcher on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:02 pm

19delta wrote:Yet American police resort to the use of lethal force at an incredibly higher rate than German police. Is it at least POSSIBLE that German police officers are exposed to a more holistic approach to law enforcement, considering they train for their vocation 6x longer than their American counterparts?

Germans are over-trained in multiple disciplines.. Wink To work at a bakery counter requires a 3 year training period. Basically, at age 16 you are tracked into your career. So if your grades are low, don't expect no "free college." You're going to trade school. Want to be a waitress? Fine. You already speak German and English, choose your third language, go to trade school for three years and learn how to draw a medium temperature beer so it doesn't foam too much....

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Post by 19delta on Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:35 am

BirdWatcher wrote:
19delta wrote:Yet American police resort to the use of lethal force at an incredibly higher rate than German police. Is it at least POSSIBLE that German police officers are exposed to a more holistic approach to law enforcement, considering they train for their vocation 6x longer than their American counterparts?

Germans are over-trained in multiple disciplines.. Wink   To work at a bakery counter requires a 3 year training period.   Basically, at age 16 you are tracked into your career.  So if your grades are low, don't expect no "free college."   You're going to trade school.  Want to be a waitress?  Fine.  You already speak German and English, choose your third language, go to trade school for three years and learn how to draw a medium temperature beer so it doesn't foam too much....

Well, these "over-trained" German cops almost NEVER have to resort to lethal force. If that's the result of "over-training", I'd GLADLY take some of that here!  Laughing
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Post by Head Idiot on Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:45 am

19delta wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:
19delta wrote:Yet American police resort to the use of lethal force at an incredibly higher rate than German police. Is it at least POSSIBLE that German police officers are exposed to a more holistic approach to law enforcement, considering they train for their vocation 6x longer than their American counterparts?

Germans are over-trained in multiple disciplines.. Wink   To work at a bakery counter requires a 3 year training period.   Basically, at age 16 you are tracked into your career.  So if your grades are low, don't expect no "free college."   You're going to trade school.  Want to be a waitress?  Fine.  You already speak German and English, choose your third language, go to trade school for three years and learn how to draw a medium temperature beer so it doesn't foam too much....

Well, these "over-trained" German cops almost NEVER have to resort to lethal force. If that's the result of "over-training", I'd GLADLY take some of that here!  Laughing
I would wager there's some difference between the people they deal with too.
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Post by 19delta on Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:56 am

Head Idiot wrote:
19delta wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:
19delta wrote:Yet American police resort to the use of lethal force at an incredibly higher rate than German police. Is it at least POSSIBLE that German police officers are exposed to a more holistic approach to law enforcement, considering they train for their vocation 6x longer than their American counterparts?

Germans are over-trained in multiple disciplines.. Wink   To work at a bakery counter requires a 3 year training period.   Basically, at age 16 you are tracked into your career.  So if your grades are low, don't expect no "free college."   You're going to trade school.  Want to be a waitress?  Fine.  You already speak German and English, choose your third language, go to trade school for three years and learn how to draw a medium temperature beer so it doesn't foam too much....

Well, these "over-trained" German cops almost NEVER have to resort to lethal force. If that's the result of "over-training", I'd GLADLY take some of that here!  Laughing
I would wager there's some difference between the people they deal with too.

The biggest difference is the ubiquity of guns in America compared to Germany. Certainly, there is a much higher likelihood that American cops will encounter gun wielding suspects than German cops will.

But that only accounts for part of the discrepancy. The training program in Germany is designed much more differently than it is in America because the desired outcomes and the culture of policing is very different.
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Post by 19delta on Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:28 am

And if the Germans can change the way they train their police, that should really tell you something... Wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_Police_battalions?wprov=sfla1

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Post by dusty7 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:38 pm

So we are over 1 week into this movement/demonstration that in my eyes is now bringing about more conflict than change at this point. If this is supposed to unite our nation, I must be lost because it seems that now, more than ever, disagreements are creating very gutteral and violent reactions.

I am all for protesting and showing your first amendment rights but at some point, these protestors need to become activists if they want to see the change they are protesting for. Go get involved in the inner city and impoverished communities, go vote, run for office, do something more than state your opinion.
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Post by lefty120 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:38 pm

Just left a peaceful demonstration my son and some of his classmates were involved in here in downtown Salem. About 150-200 people. Very proud of him and the people there for what they were doing and their passion for this cause. Our community is very typical of many predominately white rural communities...people claim to not be racist and hide behind their religion to claim as such, but our community is horribly the opposite. Many of you probably come from something similar. Our assistant baseball coach drove by and flipped off the demonstrators for crying out loud. Another prominent business owner rode his bike by and scolded everyone yelling ‘all lives matter’, as if the demonstrators don’t think all lives matter.

I think the problem right now, especially to the point Dusty is making, is that many of these people can’t become activists and more involved because of the system that’s been put in place. It’s easy for white people to say ‘get involved’ or ‘do something about it’...we as white people can...but for African Americans in particular, there are very few areas where their voice is legitimately heard in this country.

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Post by dusty7 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:52 pm

I agree 100% Lefty, it is easy for is white people to say get involved but I think of those who really want to see change should do a bit more and that will give African Americans a legitimate voice.
I guess you can say I'm tired of the half hearted effort by a lot of people, not all people, who are not genuine on their efforts to bring about real change.

Also, the calls for defunding police departments is ridiculous. Not all doctors who recieve Medicare payments are ethical, so maybe we defund that. Not all teachers are fair, so let's defund education. Some of the radical proposals like this one are so far fetched that I lose faith in what is really wanted by these groups. A world without police, come on. Violence in Chicago is rising rapidly because these officers are focused on the demonstrations, while people are shooting each other in less high profile neighborhoods.
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Post by OSUBucks on Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:07 pm

Those calls to defund police departments aren't going anywhere. There are some in the progressive wing of Democrats calling for that to happen but there are still enough mainstream Democrats to thwart those loony ideas. I do think reforms are needed but if you didn't have police you'd see a huge increase in crime.
Lefty, your son and his friends are on the right side of history. It is good to see the number of Whites, Latinos and Asians who are marching with Blacks in these marches.
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Post by lefty120 on Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:29 pm

A lot of valid points here. I definitely agree that defunding the police is not the answer nor is the violence and law breaking that’s happening in many of these demonstrations. It was just amazing to me how, even in our small southern Illinois community, you could feel like you were trying to do some sort of good.

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Post by OSUBucks on Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:53 pm

975 new cases today.
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Post by guerin2.0 on Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:48 pm

Been a while since Ive posted. Been quite a week or so up here. I live in Chicago, work for a company that had multiple locations looted/destroyed. First time I've actually been afraid at work, moreso for my employees because we had no idea what we were going to have happen to our store or ourselves. Hope everyone is safe!
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Post by OSUBucks on Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:00 pm

guerin2.0 wrote:Been a while since Ive posted. Been quite a week or so up here. I live in Chicago, work for a company that had multiple locations looted/destroyed. First time I've actually been afraid at work, moreso for my employees because we had no idea what we were going to have happen to our store or ourselves. Hope everyone is safe!

Good to hear from you. We are coping pretty well here. Stay safe, this should be over soon.
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Post by OSUBucks on Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:37 pm

The stupidity of the Minneapolis City Council. The mayor can't stop it as they have a veto proof majority. This won't end well.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-rejects-city-council-push-to-defund-police
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Post by 19delta on Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:53 am

OSUBucks wrote:The stupidity of the Minneapolis City Council. The mayor can't stop it as they have a veto proof majority. This won't end well.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-rejects-city-council-push-to-defund-police

Why not?

Camden, NJ did something similar and it appears it is working:
https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html


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Post by Head Idiot on Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:29 am

19delta wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:The stupidity of the Minneapolis City Council. The mayor can't stop it as they have a veto proof majority. This won't end well.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-rejects-city-council-push-to-defund-police

Why not?

Camden, NJ did something similar and it appears it is working:
https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html


But they didn't get rid of cops. They shifted it into the county. Who in turn took the force from 260 officers to 420.

From your article- "The Camden County Police Department rehired most of the laid-off cops, along with nearly 100 other officers, but at much lower salaries and with fewer benefits than they had received from the city."

That doesn't sound like much reform to me. That sounds like changing a name and making something cheaper. They also just unionized this year, so, those savings will be ending soon.
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Post by 19delta on Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:25 am

Head Idiot wrote:
19delta wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:The stupidity of the Minneapolis City Council. The mayor can't stop it as they have a veto proof majority. This won't end well.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-rejects-city-council-push-to-defund-police

Why not?

Camden, NJ did something similar and it appears it is working:
https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html


But they didn't get rid of cops. They shifted it into the county. Who in turn took the force from 260 officers to 420.

From your article- "The Camden County Police Department rehired most of the laid-off cops, along with nearly 100 other officers, but at much lower salaries and with fewer benefits than they had received from the city."

That doesn't sound like much reform to me. That sounds like changing a name and making something cheaper. They also just unionized this year, so, those savings will be ending soon.

The article I posted didn't get into the structural changes. Leadership change, cultural change, new training, realtionship-building with the community...basically, they police differently now. It's pretty interesting. They have a lot of work to do but it's a step in the right direction.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department
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Post by Teetime on Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:11 pm

I'm a skeptic on this "defunding" idea that seem to be today's flavor, but after reading about Camden NJ I'm more hopeful that there is a solid foundation for the idea.

The guy that runs the police officer's union for the City of Minneapolis seems to be one of the big problems in that city. Any plan that includes his stepping away from the levers of power in that city seems like a step in the right direction.


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Post by 19delta on Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:16 pm

Teetime wrote:I'm a skeptic on this "defunding" idea that seem to be today's flavor, but after reading about Camden NJ I'm more hopeful that there is a solid foundation for the idea.

The guy that runs the police officer's union for the City of Minneapolis seems to be one of the big problems in that city. Any plan that includes his stepping away from the levers of power in that city seems like a step in the right direction.


Agreed.

That guy is a caveman.
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Post by OSUBucks on Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:42 pm

There was a study on the Chicago PD that showed that about 5% of the cops were responsible for a third of the problems between cops and the citizens. If they could weed out the bad apples that would be a big improvement. Reforms, some of which Delta mentioned, are needed. Minneapolis isn't talking about that though, they want to disband the entire police force. Reform are one thing, a knee jerk reaction is another.
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