Joe Biden Innocent or Not Guilty

Head Idiot wrote:Europe didn't stop mitigation early and they're getting HAMMERED right now.

Europe mitigated their first spike to a much lower level than we did ours. You know what Europe getting hammered now means? It means that our numbers in 2-3 weeks will make Europe's numbers look like a walk in the park. Why? Because we started at a FAR higher baseline than they did for this particular wave. And why is that? Because Europe did a much better job of mitigating the first time. They had the fortitude to stick it out. They did not have that second spike in the summer as we did in this country. They mitigated to a low enough level and we didn't. So, now, we are on our third spike, and they are on their second. Mark my words that our third spike will be far higher than their second.

Head Idiot wrote:Wow. Just wow.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-bad-news-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-trump-administration

i wISh PeoPLe wOULd STop PolitiCIZIng COVID...    

I think we've established that everyone has politicized this from Republicans to Democrats. Cuomo is part of the problem, I have no argument there whatsoever. I can't say that I'm not with him to a degree though...The President has proven to be incapable of handling this from a national standpoint. I'm not saying anyone else would have done better, but he hasn't. To leave him in charge of the roll out of this vaccine is a risky proposition although I'm not sure what alternatives we have. He hasn't met with two of the top Dr.'s on infectious disease, who are on his task force, in months. If this vaccine is as the research and data suggest, I can't wait for him and his 'Operation Warp Speed' to take credit for it even though Pfizer has refused any federal $ from that program since it began it's research. Pricing of the vaccine seems to be very reasonable as well.

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:Wow. Just wow.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-bad-news-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-trump-administration

i wISh PeoPLe wOULd STop PolitiCIZIng COVID...    

I think we've established that everyone has politicized this from Republicans to Democrats.  Cuomo is part of the problem, I have no argument there whatsoever.  I can't say that I'm not with him to a degree though...The President has proven to be incapable of handling this from a national standpoint.  I'm not saying anyone else would have done better, but he hasn't.  To leave him in charge of the roll out of this vaccine is a risky proposition although I'm not sure what alternatives we have.  He hasn't met with two of the top Dr.'s on infectious disease, who are on his task force, in months.  If this vaccine is as the research and data suggest, I can't wait for him and his 'Operation Warp Speed' to take credit for it even though Pfizer has refused any federal $ from that program since it began it's research.  Pricing of the vaccine seems to be very reasonable as well.

Watched a fascinating 60 Minutes segment last night that highlighted the military's logistical planning to distribute the virus.  Highly recommend.

The head of that effort, a 4 star general, said what keeps him up at night is what will happen if public sentiment surrounding the virus is such that too few people want it after all the expense and effort to rush it out there.      

'We get vaccines to the American people and they don't take them. Shame on us," he said.

'"Hey, I was already sick, I don't need it. Shame on us. Hey, I don't believe in vaccines. Shame on us. Just shame on us and it does keep me up at night."

ramblinman wrote:

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:Wow. Just wow.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-bad-news-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-trump-administration

i wISh PeoPLe wOULd STop PolitiCIZIng COVID...    

I think we've established that everyone has politicized this from Republicans to Democrats.  Cuomo is part of the problem, I have no argument there whatsoever.  I can't say that I'm not with him to a degree though...The President has proven to be incapable of handling this from a national standpoint.  I'm not saying anyone else would have done better, but he hasn't.  To leave him in charge of the roll out of this vaccine is a risky proposition although I'm not sure what alternatives we have.  He hasn't met with two of the top Dr.'s on infectious disease, who are on his task force, in months.  If this vaccine is as the research and data suggest, I can't wait for him and his 'Operation Warp Speed' to take credit for it even though Pfizer has refused any federal $ from that program since it began it's research.  Pricing of the vaccine seems to be very reasonable as well.

Watched a fascinating 60 Minutes segment last night that highlighted the military's logistical planning to distribute the virus.  Highly recommend.

The head of that effort, a 4 star general, said what keeps him up at night is what will happen if public sentiment surrounding the virus is such that too few people want it after all the expense and effort to rush it out there.      

'We get vaccines to the American people and they don't take them. Shame on us," he said.

'"Hey, I was already sick, I don't need it. Shame on us. Hey, I don't believe in vaccines. Shame on us. Just shame on us and it does keep me up at night."

I watched the same thing and have the same thoughts as you on this. There are a lot of people nervous about the vaccine for a variety of reasons. The lack of trust people have in the government and the big pharma is at an all-time high due to Zantac, Lipitor, Celebrex, Talcum Powder, and other drugs that were once deemed safe but cause serious long term side effects.  Is this the case with vaccines? There is a faction of people out there that will say yes. Does the government force them to take the vaccine? Even if they refuse, if enough people take the vaccine herd immunity should set in or am I missing something. 

My one question is why would people be so worried about Trump overseeing the distribution of the vaccine? It looks to the be job of the Military and the States to distribute and a plan is already in place, so the President does not have much to do with the process.

 So what if Trump gets credit for it, why would it even matter at this point? I believe that we all want to see an end to this (or at least a sharp decrease in the spread, which a vaccine will hopefully provide) so why bring in politics? If a vaccine become available before January 21, should Trump just sit back and say "hey, we are going to wait until the Biden takes office to distribute it" to please those who don't trust him? I thought this was all about saving lives but seems to be more about who gets the credit for the vaccine.

lefty120 wrote:

tps wrote:

lefty120 wrote:What proof do you have of that?  Or did you hear it from the news or Trump?  Or did they all of a sudden kick these observers out when Trump was ahead?  Again, an awful lot of Republican leadership in some of these states to be throwing around accusations such as this.

patience, grasshoppah

All lawsuits except 1 have been thrown out of court...another was supposed to be filed today.  What are they waiting for?  I think that's a fair question.  The American people need to know what has happened during the election if indeed there were things in multiple states that went wrong as the Republican leadership claims.  

we agree, transparency is good.
what's the rush. gore didn't concede until a couple weeks into december

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:Wow. Just wow.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-bad-news-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-trump-administration

i wISh PeoPLe wOULd STop PolitiCIZIng COVID...    

I think we've established that everyone has politicized this from Republicans to Democrats.  Cuomo is part of the problem, I have no argument there whatsoever.  I can't say that I'm not with him to a degree though...The President has proven to be incapable of handling this from a national standpoint.  I'm not saying anyone else would have done better, but he hasn't.  To leave him in charge of the roll out of this vaccine is a risky proposition although I'm not sure what alternatives we have.  He hasn't met with two of the top Dr.'s on infectious disease, who are on his task force, in months.  If this vaccine is as the research and data suggest, I can't wait for him and his 'Operation Warp Speed' to take credit for it even though Pfizer has refused any federal $ from that program since it began it's research.  Pricing of the vaccine seems to be very reasonable as well.

I think Cuomo wants to be POTUS some day. I hope not.

tps wrote:

lefty120 wrote:What proof do you have of that?  Or did you hear it from the news or Trump?  Or did they all of a sudden kick these observers out when Trump was ahead?  Again, an awful lot of Republican leadership in some of these states to be throwing around accusations such as this.

patience, grasshoppah

I take it that you aren't going to Joe's inauguration? Sounds like you're still in the denial stage.

OSUBucks wrote:

tps wrote:

lefty120 wrote:What proof do you have of that?  Or did you hear it from the news or Trump?  Or did they all of a sudden kick these observers out when Trump was ahead?  Again, an awful lot of Republican leadership in some of these states to be throwing around accusations such as this.

patience, grasshoppah

I take it that you aren't going to Joe's inauguration? Sounds like you're still in the denial stage.

I don't think Trump is going to the inauguration!

OSUBucks wrote:

lefty120 wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:Wow. Just wow.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-bad-news-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-trump-administration

i wISh PeoPLe wOULd STop PolitiCIZIng COVID...    

I think we've established that everyone has politicized this from Republicans to Democrats.  Cuomo is part of the problem, I have no argument there whatsoever.  I can't say that I'm not with him to a degree though...The President has proven to be incapable of handling this from a national standpoint.  I'm not saying anyone else would have done better, but he hasn't.  To leave him in charge of the roll out of this vaccine is a risky proposition although I'm not sure what alternatives we have.  He hasn't met with two of the top Dr.'s on infectious disease, who are on his task force, in months.  If this vaccine is as the research and data suggest, I can't wait for him and his 'Operation Warp Speed' to take credit for it even though Pfizer has refused any federal $ from that program since it began it's research.  Pricing of the vaccine seems to be very reasonable as well.

I think Cuomo wants to be POTUS some day. I hope not.

If he does, those in nursing homes should be very nervous.

OSUBucks wrote:

tps wrote:

lefty120 wrote:What proof do you have of that?  Or did you hear it from the news or Trump?  Or did they all of a sudden kick these observers out when Trump was ahead?  Again, an awful lot of Republican leadership in some of these states to be throwing around accusations such as this.

patience, grasshoppah

I take it that you aren't going to Joe's inauguration? Sounds like you're still in the denial stage.

Kinda in the wait-and-see stage.

dusty7 wrote:If a vaccine become available before January 21, should Trump just sit back and say "hey, we are going to wait until the Biden takes office to distribute it" to please those who don't trust him? I thought this was all about saving lives but seems to be more about who gets the credit for the vaccine.

Exactly what I thought.

But, we all know letting people die doesn't bother Cuomo. Why anyone listens to that guy at all about any advice on COVID is confounding.

dusty7 wrote:My one question is why would people be so worried about Trump overseeing the distribution of the vaccine? It looks to the be job of the Military and the States to distribute and a plan is already in place, so the President does not have much to do with the process.

 So what if Trump gets credit for it, why would it even matter at this point? I believe that we all want to see an end to this (or at least a sharp decrease in the spread, which a vaccine will hopefully provide) so why bring in politics? If a vaccine become available before January 21, should Trump just sit back and say "hey, we are going to wait until the Biden takes office to distribute it" to please those who don't trust him? I thought this was all about saving lives but seems to be more about who gets the credit for the vaccine.

The distribution of an approved vaccine under a Trump presidency doesn't worry me. Besides, the vast majority of it will be distributed after January 20.

What worried (note the past tense) me about a vaccine developed and licensed for distribution under a Trump administration was if his lackeys at the FDA authorized abbreviated clinical trials or if the review of the trials were rushed. My concern there was that he was willing to take too many shortcuts in an effort to say that he was distributing a vaccine before election day. That concern has passed for me. I don't care who gets the credit, as long as I have confidence in the vaccine.

OSUBucks wrote:Pfizer announced today that their vaccine is 90% effective. I'm sure vaccines will be available by Spring.
Also the Illinois bill backlog has grown to 9.17 billion as of today and the graduated tax initiative was shot down on Election day. We need to get people back to work. Over the weekend Springfield shuttered D&J's Restaurant because they had too many people in there having breakfast. Two bars were also fined. People are just trying to survive.

Had a coworker who was absolutely giddy about Biden being elected last night because he absolutely sees it as confirmation that Illinois will get bailed out. His sole interest is his pension. I suggested to him that it will eventually come from his pocket. He said that "rich people" will fund it. He makes 150k+ every year. Also suggested "he has ways around it"- paying taxes.

I just said I have no idea how anyone who's lived through 50+ years of lies from politicians can have any amount of faith in the government. He said I was grumpy. I guess realism is just being grumpy.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/election-2020/ct-election-results-vote-count-20201109-iu7idw7vundzrg7cjpktmwg7o4-story.html

Barr's gonna have a look.

tps wrote:https://www.chicagotribune.com/election-2020/ct-election-results-vote-count-20201109-iu7idw7vundzrg7cjpktmwg7o4-story.html

Barr's gonna have a look.

Not surprising, he's just a yes man for Trump. There's very little evidence of voter fraud but that won't stop them from digging around. States have until December 8 to settle election disputes. Electoral College meets on December 14 to finalize the election.

OSUBucks wrote:

tps wrote:https://www.chicagotribune.com/election-2020/ct-election-results-vote-count-20201109-iu7idw7vundzrg7cjpktmwg7o4-story.html

Barr's gonna have a look.

Not surprising, he's just a yes man for Trump. There's very little evidence of voter fraud but that won't stop them from digging around. States have until December 8 to settle election disputes. Electoral College meets on December 14 to finalize the election.

Dead people votes, sworn affidavits of irregularities, double votes. It may not be enough to change anything. Transparency is good. What are we afraid of?

tps wrote:Dead people votes

Only in Chicago.

Thank God. Our national nightmare is over.

https://herald-review.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/canines-back-at-white-house-joe-biden-to-bring-2-dogs-including-rescue-pup/article_e6bc3890-2353-5789-bc1b-bb7661bf47cb.html#tracking-source=top-promo

I'm anxiously awaiting the incoming flood of fluff pieces about Biden.

tps wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:

tps wrote:https://www.chicagotribune.com/election-2020/ct-election-results-vote-count-20201109-iu7idw7vundzrg7cjpktmwg7o4-story.html

Barr's gonna have a look.

Not surprising, he's just a yes man for Trump. There's very little evidence of voter fraud but that won't stop them from digging around. States have until December 8 to settle election disputes. Electoral College meets on December 14 to finalize the election.

Dead people votes, sworn affidavits of irregularities, double votes. It may not be enough to change anything. Transparency is good. What are we afraid of?

Nothing, just further evidence that Trump doesn't give a shiite about the US of it's people. Trump only cares about Trump.

OSUBucks wrote:

tps wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:

tps wrote:https://www.chicagotribune.com/election-2020/ct-election-results-vote-count-20201109-iu7idw7vundzrg7cjpktmwg7o4-story.html

Barr's gonna have a look.

Not surprising, he's just a yes man for Trump. There's very little evidence of voter fraud but that won't stop them from digging around. States have until December 8 to settle election disputes. Electoral College meets on December 14 to finalize the election.

Dead people votes, sworn affidavits of irregularities, double votes. It may not be enough to change anything. Transparency is good. What are we afraid of?

Nothing, just further evidence that Trump doesn't give a shiite about the US of it's people. Trump only cares about Trump.

Stop it. This was going to happen if the shoe was on the other foot.

Remember Hillary and other top Democrats saying Joe should never concede under any circumstances? But it's only bad when Trump does it right?

Wrong, if they find illegality in one or two states it still wouldn't shift the election to Trump. Biden will have over 300 EVs. Trump would have to find wrongdoing in at least 3 states to have a shot. Not going to happen.

OSUBucks wrote:

tps wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:

tps wrote:https://www.chicagotribune.com/election-2020/ct-election-results-vote-count-20201109-iu7idw7vundzrg7cjpktmwg7o4-story.html

Barr's gonna have a look.

Not surprising, he's just a yes man for Trump. There's very little evidence of voter fraud but that won't stop them from digging around. States have until December 8 to settle election disputes. Electoral College meets on December 14 to finalize the election.

Dead people votes, sworn affidavits of irregularities, double votes. It may not be enough to change anything. Transparency is good. What are we afraid of?

Nothing, just further evidence that Trump doesn't give a shiite about the US of it's people. Trump only cares about Trump.

Transparency is good. 70 million people +/- probably agree with Trump. Are the people who gave statements lying?

OSUBucks wrote:Wrong, if they find illegality in one or two states it still wouldn't shift the election to Trump. Biden will have over 300 EVs. Trump would have to find wrongdoing in at least 3 states to have a shot. Not going to happen.

Wrong about what? This was both campaign's intentions the entire time. See link.

PS- 60,000 votes flips 3 states. Those 3 states completely flip the election.