Joe Biden Innocent or Not Guilty

So exactly how is Biden going to achieve these goals? What is his plan for COVID?

Supports cost-free COVID-19 testing, treatment, preventative services, and eventual vaccine for the insured and uninsured
Will authorize the Defense Production Action to ensure PPE and other supplies are provided to our hospitals and health care providers during the health crisis
Backs premium pay for essential workers

How will he ring in the deficits? Another COVID bailout won't help that much.

I didn’t say anything about a Covid bailout.

By raising corporate income taxes to 28%. You can’t cut taxes and spend like a drunken sailor, and hope for the best.

Teetime wrote:
Supports upholding collective bargaining agreements under the FCC's One Touch Make Ready rule

THIS is solving the issues of the day.

Concerning collective bargaining agreements, how do you reconcile your and your candidates' support of unions while it is, as you remind us consistently, the reason Illinois is broke?

Teetime wrote:How will he ring in the deficits? Another COVID bailout won't help that much.

I didn’t say anything about a Covid bailout.

By raising corporate income taxes to 28%. You can’t cut taxes and spend like a drunken sailor, and hope for the best.

Do you actually believe he will tell Nancy no when she wants the full 2.4 billion for spending?

And you make this post after going through a laundry list of free stuff he's planning on giving out.

Teetime wrote:

dusty7 wrote:
How is he going to help working families?

Supports stronger OSHA rules
Supports a $15 minimum wage
Commits to keeping good manufacturing and call centers jobs in the U.S. by ending Trump's tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas
Will invest $20 billion in rural broadband infrastructure
Supports upholding collective bargaining agreements under the FCC's One Touch Make Ready rule

Thank your for specifics.

Won't the $15 minimum wage just create inflation and make everyday goods more expensive and cause some employers to find cheaper alternatives such as computers or machines? I'm all for a Working Wage for those over that work over 32 hours a week but not an overall increase in Minimum Wage. The HS kid at McDonald's should not be making the same amount as a single mother who is an office assistant.

Teetime wrote:How will he ring in the deficits? Another COVID bailout won't help that much.

I didn’t say anything about a Covid bailout.

By raising corporate income taxes to 28%. You can’t cut taxes and spend like a drunken sailor, and hope for the best.

What's corporate tax rate now?

Got to be careful with taxing too much. Just look at Illinois, high taxes will cause businesses to leave and then you lose their income all together. Who's to say a an increase in corporate tax won't cause some large companies to go to Mexico, Canada, or divest in their business. There has to be some type of incentive to produce and earn a profit. Take a large portion of the profit away what's the point?

Head Idiot wrote:Concerning collective bargaining agreements, how do you reconcile your and your candidates' support of unions while it is, as you remind us consistently, the reason Illinois is broke?

You aren't listening.

PENSIONS THAT ARE TOO RICH. The reason why Illinois is broke.

I thought I was perfectly clear about that.

Teetime wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:Concerning collective bargaining agreements, how do you reconcile your and your candidates' support of unions while it is, as you remind us consistently, the reason Illinois is broke?

You aren't listening.

PENSIONS THAT ARE TOO RICH. The reason why Illinois is broke.

I thought I was perfectly clear about that.

Which are negotiated by unions through collective bargaining.

dusty7 wrote:What's corporate tax rate now?

Got to be careful with taxing too much.  Just look at Illinois, high taxes will cause businesses to leave and then you lose their income all together.  Who's to say a an increase in corporate tax won't cause some large companies to go to Mexico, Canada, or divest in their business.  There has to be some type of incentive to produce and earn a profit. Take a large portion of the profit away what's the point?

Since the Trump tax bill in 2017-18 they were dropped to 21% (a flat tax).

Before that, and for several decades, there was a graduated rate that went

15% on the first $50,000
25% on the next $25,000
34% flat tax on up to $10,000,000
35% after that

Head Idiot wrote:Which are negotiated by unions through collective bargaining.

Negotiated...exactly.

The Union is doing it's job. It is negotiating.

It's the politicians on the other side of the table (from BOTH parties) that are to blame. They are really bad negotiators as compared to every single other state.

You think the solution is to do away with the good negotiators?

BirdWatcher wrote:

Teetime wrote:Lets vow to never vote for Hunter for any elected position. I'll take the pledge.

The whole point of the Russian Hoax was that Trump was "compromised," and could be blackmailed by Russia to do their will to keep the embarrassing stuff from becoming public.

What will Joe Biden do to keep the rest of the Hunter stuff from becoming public?  I'd say Joe is compromised by the Ukraine, China and who knows who else......

funny how people approach these two situations.  
The russian dossier had to be proven false. The biden emails have to be proven true.
seems odd to me but i'm pretty dumb

Teetime wrote:So exactly how is Biden going to achieve these goals? What is his plan for COVID?

Supports cost-free COVID-19 testing, treatment, preventative services, and eventual vaccine for the insured and uninsured
Will authorize the Defense Production Action to ensure PPE and other supplies are provided to our hospitals and health care providers during the health crisis
Backs premium pay for essential workers

What is the definition of essential worker? I would argue that last March our government clearly set the precedent that Liquor Store, Gas Station, Grocery Store workers are considered essential, so they should receive the Premium Pay. Obviously, health care workers fall into this category as well. I would argue that as a teacher I deserve this premium pay because I am in a classroom with students every day.

I know PPE was a huge issue at the beginning of the pandemic but I have not heard of any shortage here recently.

Do you believe that Biden will shut everything down again? He has stated that he will. However, since his statement the WHO has stated that shutdowns are far more dangerous than COVID itself.

Teetime wrote:

dusty7 wrote:What's corporate tax rate now?

Got to be careful with taxing too much.  Just look at Illinois, high taxes will cause businesses to leave and then you lose their income all together.  Who's to say a an increase in corporate tax won't cause some large companies to go to Mexico, Canada, or divest in their business.  There has to be some type of incentive to produce and earn a profit. Take a large portion of the profit away what's the point?

Since the Trump tax bill in 2017-18 they were dropped to 21% (a flat tax).

Before that, and for several decades, there was a graduated rate that went

15% on the first $50,000
25% on the next $25,000
34% flat tax on up to $10,000,000
35% after that  

From 2017 - 2019, was there an increase in corporate income, were workers earning more money? What effect did this tax drop have on the economy as a whole?

dusty7 wrote:Got to be careful with taxing too much.  Just look at Illinois, high taxes will cause businesses to leave and then you lose their income all together.  Who's to say a an increase in corporate tax won't cause some large companies to go to Mexico, Canada, or divest in their business.  There has to be some type of incentive to produce and earn a profit. Take a large portion of the profit away what's the point?

The period of greatest growth in the US was after WWII and on into the early 60's and our top individual tax rates were in the SEVENTIES, like 78% top tax rate. The Corporate rates were the ones I described above, or higher. They were NOT lower. We had great growth in the 1990's with the corporate tax structure above and HIGHER individual income tax rates than we have right now.

States that surround Illinois generally all have a progressive income (tiered) tax system, some with rates higher than Illinois.


So Dusty, you said wanted three things, but it looks like you really wanted to argue.

I'm obviously OK with arguing, but don't tell me you were trying to decide who to vote for. You seem to have decided.

dusty7 wrote:From 2017 - 2019, was there an increase in corporate income, were workers earning more money?  What effect did this tax drop have on the economy as a whole?

Well, I'm not an economist, but I can say that business grew during the 2017-2018 and then a drop of .85% in 2019. It might have been in part due to the corporate tax decrease, it might not have.

Historically, I would say that it is difficult to tie tax cuts to business increases and harder still to tie recessions to tax increases. In 2009 through 2016 business also increased. and the rate of growth from 2011 through 2015 was about the same as the 2017-2019 years. During those three years there was no tax decrease and the president was of the other party.

BirdWatcher wrote:

I voted today, for Jo Jorgensen.  Here are the reasons I didn't vote Trump

1. Crazy spending, almost like a Democrat
2. Abuse of the Executive Order
3. He's a liar
4. He's an asshole

My work here is done.

Teetime wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:Which are negotiated by unions through collective bargaining.

Negotiated...exactly.

The Union is doing it's job. It is negotiating.

It's the politicians on the other side of the table (from BOTH parties) that are to blame. They are really bad negotiators as compared to every single other state.

You think the solution is to do away with the good negotiators?

What?

I know this- under Rauner step increases were frozen for 4 years under a cost cutting measure. One of the very first things Pritzker did as Governor was to cut checks to cover all 4 years of those raises. I have co workers who got checks ranging from 20k-60k dollars. They all LOVE JB.

He knows who got him elected and he doesn't care about the people paying for it.

And, there is no Republicans to blame for Illinois' last negotiations. Republicans don't matter in state government decisions. That is proven daily in Springfield.

For Democrats it's a sweet cash cow. Give unions more money, so they can pay higher union dues and the unions can turn around and give that money back to the Democrats. It's a fantastic laundering scheme.

dusty7 wrote:

Teetime wrote:So exactly how is Biden going to achieve these goals? What is his plan for COVID?

Supports cost-free COVID-19 testing, treatment, preventative services, and eventual vaccine for the insured and uninsured
Will authorize the Defense Production Action to ensure PPE and other supplies are provided to our hospitals and health care providers during the health crisis
Backs premium pay for essential workers

What is the definition of essential worker?  I would argue that last March our government clearly set the precedent that Liquor Store, Gas Station, Grocery Store workers are considered essential, so they should receive the Premium Pay.  Obviously, health care workers fall into this category as well.  I would argue that as a teacher I deserve this premium pay because I am in a classroom with students every day.

I know PPE was a huge issue at the beginning of the pandemic but I have not heard of any shortage here recently.

Do you believe that Biden will shut everything down again?  He has stated that he will.  However, since his statement the WHO has stated that shutdowns are far more dangerous than COVID itself.  

You forgot weed store as essential.

Head Idiot wrote:I know this- under Rauner step increases were frozen for 4 years under a cost cutting measure. One of the very first things Pritzker did as Governor was to cut checks to cover all 4 years of those raises. I have co workers who got checks ranging from 20k-60k dollars. They all LOVE JB.

I thought "step increases" were a school thing. Do regular state employees get "step increases"?

Is there a "Step Schedule"? Is it just the passage of time that moves a prison employee say, from step 8 to step 9?

Are those union employees that were getting "step increases"?

dusty7 wrote:Thank your for specifics.

Won't the $15 minimum wage  just create inflation and make everyday goods more expensive and cause some employers to find cheaper alternatives such as computers or machines?  I'm all for a Working Wage for those over that work over 32 hours a week but not an overall increase in Minimum Wage.  The HS kid at McDonald's should not be making the same amount as a single mother who is an office assistant.  

You are welcome.

Are you opposed to any minimum wage? If not, what exactly should it be?

You are right. The office assistant should make more than $15 per hour. I pay mine more.

dusty7 wrote:What is the definition of essential worker?  I would argue that last March our government clearly set the precedent that Liquor Store, Gas Station, Grocery Store workers are considered essential, so they should receive the Premium Pay.  Obviously, health care workers fall into this category as well.  I would argue that as a teacher I deserve this premium pay because I am in a classroom with students every day.

I know PPE was a huge issue at the beginning of the pandemic but I have not heard of any shortage here recently.

Do you believe that Biden will shut everything down again?  He has stated that he will.  However, since his statement the WHO has stated that shutdowns are far more dangerous than COVID itself.  

Last March fifty different governments decided what was an essential worker in that state.

Biden's plan will be a national plan. It may be triggered in zones or areas that need more help.

Congress will probably have a say in who exactly are "essential workers". I know Pritzker made me essential. Someone has to prepare tax returns.

Nobody can say right now if shut-downs will become necessary. That is a decision that is made when things are dire. Biden has stated that if necessary, he will.

I would argue that ALL workers are essential and if you start giving certain jobs more money based upon what they do, there is going to be a huge uproar. Everybody wants equality but when you start saying one job is more important than the other and they should be paid more, you are basically creating economic discrimination. Honestly, in theory, it is a good idea but it will be very difficult to tell any worker in any profession or industry that their are not as "essential" as other workers.

As for minimum wage, I am not a fan if a one size fits all increase all at one point in time. Now if it is a stepped plan, like we created in Illinois, I am somewhat okay with that. It provides businesses time to create a plan to increase the pay for their workers.

I would also argue that if you pass a $15 minimum wage, you will see fewer people in unskilled jobs getting opportunities for raises, working enough hours, or receiving benefits. Using the office worker as an example, instead of paying her $15 for 40 hours plus benefits, many executives would hire 2 workers for $15 and have them work for 20 hours or even hire 2 workers and pay them $20 an hour for 20 hours a week and still save money.

It's easy to see that people will be making more money but what you do not see is the limiting in hours, development of new technologies so you don't even have workers, and the inflation that would occur. Making more money is great but until you factor in inflation, are you really making more money?

tps wrote:

BirdWatcher wrote:

Teetime wrote:Lets vow to never vote for Hunter for any elected position. I'll take the pledge.

The whole point of the Russian Hoax was that Trump was "compromised," and could be blackmailed by Russia to do their will to keep the embarrassing stuff from becoming public.

What will Joe Biden do to keep the rest of the Hunter stuff from becoming public?  I'd say Joe is compromised by the Ukraine, China and who knows who else......

funny how people approach these two situations.  
The russian dossier had to be proven false. The biden emails have to be proven true.
seems odd to me but i'm pretty dumb

There was a lot more to the Mueller investigation than the dossier, and it was never proven anything...it was unprovable.

Mostly, there was Russian interference in the 2016 election on behalf of Trump. That was proven. Then there was Trump's interference in the investigation by firing Comey, Trump admitted that part, and that was what triggered the "independent investigator".

dusty7 wrote:I would argue that ALL workers are essential and if you start giving certain jobs more money based upon what they do, there is going to be a huge uproar.  Everybody wants equality but when you start saying one job is more important than the other and they should be paid more, you are basically creating economic discrimination.  Honestly, in theory, it is a good idea but it will be very difficult to tell any worker in any profession or industry that their are not as "essential" as other workers.

Baloney!

We tell workers every day that they are more important than other workers by how much they are paid. We have since the beginning of time. Of course there is economic discrimination.

We call that Capitalism.

Teetime wrote:

tps wrote:

BirdWatcher wrote:

Teetime wrote:Lets vow to never vote for Hunter for any elected position. I'll take the pledge.

The whole point of the Russian Hoax was that Trump was "compromised," and could be blackmailed by Russia to do their will to keep the embarrassing stuff from becoming public.

What will Joe Biden do to keep the rest of the Hunter stuff from becoming public?  I'd say Joe is compromised by the Ukraine, China and who knows who else......

funny how people approach these two situations.  
The russian dossier had to be proven false. The biden emails have to be proven true.
seems odd to me but i'm pretty dumb

There was a lot more to the Mueller investigation than the dossier, and it was never proven anything...it was unprovable.

Mostly, there was Russian interference in the 2016 election on behalf of Trump. That was proven. Then there was Trump's interference in the investigation by firing Comey, Trump admitted that part, and that was what triggered the "independent investigator".

it was unprovable - i agree. but it was used extensively, some say exclusively, for FISA warrants. Trump was hammered by most, if not all, media because of it (dossier). 

comey disagrees with you. - "Comey said during his June 2017 testimony he believed the publication of the memos "might prompt the appointment of a special counsel" to lead the Russia investigation. Special counsel Robert Mueller was appointed to take over not long after Comey's firing."