Re: Coronavirus I

by dusty7 Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:31 am

I agree with politicians acting like they are experts when even the experts have no clue what is going on.

I saw one article saying it will come back in the winter worse and the very next article said that this virus is less lethal than the flu. So I really don't trust any information by any source.

The entire thing has become political and the negative economic on most Americans from being shut down is starting to get very frustrating. Many politicians want to see the closures continue so the economy stays on the tank, so they can win the Presidential election, which is 100% wrong. Regardless of how Trump handled the situation, get over it and see the negative impact on all people who do not have or recovered from the virus. But both sides are interested in their individual political gain and will claim they were the savior or I told you so, come November.

Many lives will lost for many reasons other than the virus, because of the virus. The Polio outbreak was much worse and more lethal and nothing like this occurred, people were just more careful.

by OSUBucks Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:56 pm

While I agree with RM's observations on Georgia's Governor he's off base when stating that the medical professionals have been consistently on point on this virus. This virus is new and while we are learning more every week we still don't know where this is going, there are differing views even among the medical professionals. I've heard about 5 different predictions on the US fatality projection in the past month ranging from 2.2 million to 60,000. A couple weeks ago it was Dr Fauci who revised his prediction to 60,000. I think he's going to be wrong about that one unfortunately. In the past week the death toll has doubled in the US and it's likely that we're going to go well beyond that. The prediction that the virus would peak in mid April in Illinois was revised to mid May yesterday. The experts are disagreeing on the importance of and the accuracy of the antibody tests too.
Net has been giving us updates on what's going on at the meat packing facility in his county and his concerns are on point. I heard last night that there were over 700 positive tests from workers who work at Smithfield in South Dakota and things are getting worse for meat packing workers in Nebraska too. I'm wondering if it gets to a point where some meat packing operations are shut down.
I can't say that I'm a big fan of President Trump personally but I wish we could just stick to the topic of this thread which is COVID-19 and leave the politics out of it.

by 19delta Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:40 pm

Tyson Foods in Davenport, Iowa closing down. They account for 4% of pork products sold in the United States.

https://www.kwqc.com/content/news/Tyson-Foods-pork-plant-in-Iowa-to-suspend-operations-indefinitely-569853301.html

Might be tough to find protein this summer!

by ramblinman Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:22 pm

dusty7 wrote:The entire thing has become political and the negative economic on most Americans from being shut down is starting to get very frustrating. Many politicians want to see the closures continue so the economy stays on the tank, so they can win the Presidential election, which is 100% wrong. Regardless of how Trump handled the situation, get over it and see the negative impact on all people who do not have or recovered from the virus.

Equally wrong are politicians who want to open things up too early because they want to win the Presidential election. Why are they even talking about opening up, much less encouraging protesters who want to open up, when there have not been at least 14 consecutive days of fewer daily deaths? Say what you want about the experts, but many of them agree that the time to open back up is not when the curves start to flatten or when the curves are at their peak. It's well into the down slope of the curves and only if testing and contact tracking systems and capacity are in place. Why talk about or encourage opening up when there isn't enough testing capacity to go along with the contact tracking that will have to take place?

Why did the GOP governor of Georgia shut down the state when it was reporting around 24 deaths per day in the first few days of April only to begin to reopen it on the very day that they reported 88 deaths? And, he did this without consulting with his COVID 19 task force. TOTALLY political move!

by Head Idiot Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:17 pm

This was rescinded after first responders vehemently objected-

https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/ny-issues-do-not-resuscitate-guideline-for-cardiac-patients/

Remember though, this is lockdown is about saving every life possible.

by Head Idiot Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:00 pm

Gov Cuomo wrote: "Because no American is going to say how much a life is worth."

"Job one has to be save lives. That has to be the priority," Cuomo added.

"My mother is not expendable. And your mother is not expandable...We're not going to accept a premise that human life is disposable. We're not going to put a dollar figure on human life," Cuomo said. "We are going to fight every way we can to save every life that we can. Because that's what I think it means to be an American."

by ramblinman Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:22 pm

Yesterday: https://deadline.com/2020/04/coronavirus-donald-trump-georgia-brian-kemp-1202914460/

Today: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-disagrees-strongly-with-georgia-governors-plan-to-reopen-some-businesses

I'm glad to see Trump telling a governor he is moving to fast to reopen. In effect, he is pulling the rug out from under his own flunky. Yet another head scratching fustercluck from you know who.

by Teetime Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:41 am

Head Idiot wrote:This was rescinded after first responders vehemently objected-

https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/ny-issues-do-not-resuscitate-guideline-for-cardiac-patients/

Remember though, this is lockdown is about saving every life possible.

I agree with the rescission of this rule. I also understand why the medical standards board that issued the DNR did so. It was meant to save the lives of the first responders.

Neither the old standard or the new standard has anything at all to to with the “lockdown”.

by OSUBucks Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:06 pm

Not trying to start a political argument but this is an interesting perspective from Europe.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sadness-and-disbelief-from-a-world-missing-american-leadership/ar-BB135aDz

by BirdWatcher Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:39 pm

To Those Worrying About Opening "Too early."

Life is a balance of risk versus reward. If the ultimate goal of civil society were to be ZERO deaths from the causes of civilization, that *could* be accomplished. The State could mandate that the speed limit on interstate highways be _20_ mph. They could demand that every driver (AND passenger) wear the pussy-Nascar-equivalent harness seat belt while in the car. They could legislate that every vehicle occupant wear a DOT-approved helmet. That would easily save 50,000 lives per year.

And also cripple our interstate commerce system.

Our governors were hired (elected) to do the best job possible.... in effect, to balance the state's risks versus rewards, for the best possible outcomes. Will they all succeed without error? No. If you're unhappy with their performance this year, you are welcome to vote them out next year (unless you live in Illinois, where you're screwed without end.....).

I'm ready to try opening. We may have to scale back. We could rebound fabulously. But I'm not willing to drive 20 mph on the interstate, and I'm sure as hell not wearing a fire retardant suit in my car.

by BirdWatcher Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:41 pm

OSUBucks wrote:Not trying to start a political argument but this is an interesting perspective from Europe.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sadness-and-disbelief-from-a-world-missing-american-leadership/ar-BB135aDz

Then quit posting Lame-Stream Media stuff... MSN, meh.....

by OSUBucks Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:58 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:Not trying to start a political argument but this is an interesting perspective from Europe.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sadness-and-disbelief-from-a-world-missing-american-leadership/ar-BB135aDz

Then quit posting Lame-Stream Media stuff... MSN, meh.....

I figured that you wouldn't like it. Sleepy Joe Biden is hunkered down at home doing nothing and he's watching Trump's poll numbers slumping.

by OSUBucks Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:00 pm

NY state antibody study. About 14% of the state or 2.7 million have already had the virus.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/23/new-york-antibody-study-estimates-13point9percent-of-residents-have-had-the-coronavirus-cuomo-says.html

by ramblinman Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:27 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:To Those Worrying About Opening "Too early."

Life is a balance of risk versus reward. If the ultimate goal of civil society were to be ZERO deaths from the causes of civilization, that *could* be accomplished. The State could mandate that the speed limit on interstate highways be _20_ mph. They could demand that every driver (AND passenger) wear the pussy-pussy-Nascar-equivalent harness seat belt while in the car. They could legislate that every vehicle occupant wear a DOT-approved helmet. That would easily save 50,000 lives per year.

And also cripple our interstate commerce system.

Our governors were hired (elected) to do the best job possible.... in effect, to balance the state's risks versus rewards, for the best possible outcomes. Will they all succeed without error? No. If you're unhappy with their performance this year, you are welcome to vote them out next year (unless you live in Illinois, where you're screwed without end.....).

I'm ready to try opening. We may have to scale back. We could rebound fabulously. But I'm not willing to drive 20 mph on the interstate, and I'm sure as hell not wearing a fire retardant suit in my car.

by ramblinman Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:43 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:I'm ready to try opening.

Try opening where, BW? The whole country? Your entire state? Or just your little corner of it? Do you have any specific data you can point to that causes you to be ready to try opening? Or is it more that you, like our President, have the metrics in your head that tell you that we are ready?

by Teetime Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:57 pm

OSUBucks wrote:NY state antibody study. About 14% of the state or 2.7 million have already had the virus.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/23/new-york-antibody-study-estimates-13point9percent-of-residents-have-had-the-coronavirus-cuomo-says.html

More math:

There are going to be about 22,000 deaths in this first round of the virus in New York State. That’s with 14% of the residents infected. If all 19.5 million had been infected that’s a death toll of 154,000 or so. Extrapolating that to the 335 million people in the USA and the deaths total 2,652,000 or so in the USA if 100% caught the virus.

That assumes all of us would have medical facilities the equivalent of New York State available to us.

That sounds worse than the flu to me.

by BirdWatcher Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:05 pm

ramblinman wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:I'm ready to try opening.

Try opening where, BW? The whole country? Your entire state? Or just your little corner of it?

I'm certain that my mountain-top rural community with 4 cases will be ready before Nashville.... or Chicago... or even central Illinois. We open (sorta) May 1st. Restaurants in the next county (we don't have any) will open with limitations. I'll be there, spending my Illinois pension dollars.

And like my example of state's implementing a 20-mph speed limit, I have a friend who thinks the 75 mph speed limit on interstates is WAY TOO HIGH. So she doesn't drive them. Ever. You are welcome to stay home if (when) Illinois opens its businesses. C'mon ramblin... don't you trust JB to do the right thing?

by OSUBucks Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:59 pm

Teetime wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:NY state antibody study. About 14% of the state or 2.7 million have already had the virus.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/23/new-york-antibody-study-estimates-13point9percent-of-residents-have-had-the-coronavirus-cuomo-says.html

More math:

There are going to be about 22,000 deaths in this first round of the virus in New York State. That’s with 14% of the residents infected. If all 19.5 million had been infected that’s a death toll of 154,000 or so. Extrapolating that to the 335 million people in the USA and the deaths total 2,652,000 or so in the USA if 100% caught the virus.

That assumes all of us would have medical facilities the equivalent of New York State available to us.

That sounds worse than the flu to me.

Mortality rate will be close to .05 percent or one in 200 who are infected die. That's a worse mortality rate than the flu but not by much. When this all started the experts were saying mortality rate of 3-4 percent. They missed it by a bunch as well as some other predictions. As I said before this is a new virus and they have been guessing as they continue to learn more about this. By Winter 2021 this will be pretty much a thing of the past while the flu will still be killing tens of thousands every year. The Coronavirus has killed 5 people in the County Tee and I live in, not even close to what we lose to the flu every year. The long term damage of this will be the economic damage which will take years and years to recover from. The loss of lives is sad. There are some medical professionals as well as young and middle aged people that have died too. Despite what they imply on MSNBC though there are more deaths from this from those 75 and older than those under 75.
We have got to get this economy started as soon as possible. I think in 2 weeks we will be at the apex or starting to slope downward. Hopefully we can open the economy by early June. Despite what some on TV and on here are saying we don't have to test half the country before opening things up. We know how many are dying every day. Once we get to the point where we're only losing 5-10 people a day In Illinois for 10 days in a row instead of 100 or more it's pretty apparent that this wave has pretty much petered out and we've got to open things up. Some of the Liberals on TV are going to do all they can to keep things shutdown thru the Summer which will insure Trump's defeat. I'm not implying that Tee feels that way. There are a lot of power brokers who want Trump gone so bad they're willing to harm the economy longer than necessary as long as they can rid themselves of Trump.

by BirdWatcher Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:08 pm

While we here on the Cumberland Plateau may "open up", life doesn't necessarily go back to "normal." I play music at a couple nursing homes/community centers with elderly populations. Even with a state-wide all-clear, I'm not going back to those centers til next year. Most of the musicians are locals who never (ever) leave this county. I, OTOH, travel six months a year. It would be irresponsible for me to come back to visit those most susceptible to this disease (or any disease).

I'm planning a trip to Illinois soon. I WON'T visit my own mother, as she's a high risk candidate for this.

by Teetime Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:23 pm

I think it will be about .8%, about four or five times higher than the flu.

Yes, five deaths in your county AFTER the social distancing measures. Who knows if the economy had never been interrupted?

Sure there are some crazy people that would rather destroy the economy than see Trump get re-elected. There are also some loons that don’t really care how many might die just as long as Trump gets re-elected. A pox on both their houses.

Today our President was wondering out loud in front of the whole country what would happen if we injected disinfectant directly into people or their lungs and what about UV lights shining down on the infected...just spit balling in front of TV cameras. Each day that goes by he shows how he is just not up to this job. I’ll admit, this is a tough spot he is in. It requires skills he just does not have. He should start a really conservative TV network to compete against FOX, that would be right up his alley.

by OSUBucks Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:03 am

I agree that lives were saved by social distancing, and also agree that Trump has done a poor job handling the crisis overall. The US and South Korea both had their 1st positive case on the same day. S Korea quickly ramped up testing and mobilized for a fight while Trump denied that we had a serious problem and did little of anything for a full month. Both S Korea and Germany deserve a lot of credit on how they quickly mobilized and fought this virus.
Some of Obama's holdovers who worked in this area of expertise including his Pandemic czar warned the administration that the US was poorly equipped to handle another Pandemic more than 2 years ago. Trump fired them all. That decision came back to bite our country in the ass.

by net Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:32 am

net wrote:
net wrote:don't bother. we-cass county-were one of three counties in central il to not have any cases until.......

one sat, two yesterday, four today. cchd was setting up a tent in beardstown this morning for testing.

6 total on tuesday. going to be a 'LOT' more over the next two weeks.

11 thursday.

by Head Idiot Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:05 pm

net wrote:
net wrote:
net wrote:don't bother. we-cass county-were one of three counties in central il to not have any cases until.......

one sat, two yesterday, four today. cchd was setting up a tent in beardstown this morning for testing.

6 total on tuesday. going to be a 'LOT' more over the next two weeks.

11 thursday.

We've got 96. 75 of which are from that senior home.

by OSUBucks Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:14 pm

Illinois lost 108 more people today. Among them was the 6th fatality in Sangamon county, a man in his 70's.
The White House is saying that Trump's comment about ingesting disinfectant was taken out of context. What else could they say. Possibly the dumbest comment ever uttered by a President. The virus could be gone by sometime in June but return by November. Trump has already said that he opposes voting by mail in the general election in November. I could see a big fight coming about that.

by Head Idiot Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:16 pm

OSUBucks wrote: I could see a big fight coming about that.

What isn't?

Hell, people disagreed with him saying America is, or was a great country.

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