Re: Government Shutdown

by 19delta Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:36 am

BirdWatcher wrote:
19delta wrote:....There are plenty of other reasons to believe he is a racist.

Such as his dating a black woman for two years....

Good grief. So you are going to go with the "I have lots of black friends" defense? Rolling Eyes

Slave owners routinely had sexual relationships with their slaves. I guess those slave owners weren't racist. Laughing

Here's a pretty comprehensive list of Trump's long history of being a racist:
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

So sure...he likes banging hot, black women. But he sure doesn't want them living in his neighborhood.

by BirdWatcher Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:42 am

Rape is not a "sexual relationship."

Meh, Vox....

by 19delta Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:48 am

BirdWatcher wrote:Rape is not a "sexual relationship."

Meh, Vox....

So you are disputing the incidents detailed in the article? It's not an opinion piece...

by 19delta Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:51 am

BirdWatcher wrote:Rape is not a "sexual relationship."

Meh, Vox....

How about Fortune? Still too liberal for you?

https://amp-timeinc-net.cdn.ampproject.org/v/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

by BirdWatcher Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:02 pm

"Trump took up the cause with relish." "Trump retained one of the most notorious lawyers"

Notorious? Really. In a news article....

That's mind-reading, not journalism. This is an ad for the guy's book. "Michael D’Antonio - The Truth about Trump."

by 19delta Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:04 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:"Trump took up the cause with relish." "Trump retained one of the most notorious lawyers"

Notorious? Really. In a news article....

That's mind-reading, not journalism. This is an ad for the guy's book. "Michael D’Antonio - The Truth about Trump."

So you are disputing that these incidents occurred?

by BirdWatcher Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:12 pm

19delta wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:Rape is not a "sexual relationship."

Meh, Vox....

So you are disputing the incidents detailed in the article? It's not an opinion piece...

Vox is ENTIRELY opinion. I expected better of you.

I try not to click on Vox (it only encourages them) but from the link: "calling Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists"

This is a common in the MSM. Did Trump say all Mexicans were rapists? Including the women? Including the children? What was the context in media at that time? HuffPo and others were reporting that up to 80% of Central American women get raped on their journey north. The number is less when including Mexican women, but it's still about 1/3.... A movie had just been released about illegal immigrants being detained and ransomed back (by the cartels) to their families on the journey across. When did most Americans learn what MS-13 was and is doing? After Trump's comments.

by BirdWatcher Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:16 pm

19delta wrote:So you are disputing that these incidents occurred?

I used to write for a small weekly paper. I was #FakeNews. Because my readers only wanted to read about Metamora football. I wrote ENTIRELY TRUE articles, that when paired with selective application of adjectives and hyperbole, made Metamora seem larger and better than the actual events. I once wrote about a loss to Geneseo, and people commented that reading the article they thought we won, but seeing the box score, they realized we lost.

That's Vox. And CNN. And Fox. And NYT. And WaPo. Yada yada....

by OSUBucks Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:00 pm

Teetime wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:Does being anti-illegal immigration from a certain country (e.g. Mexico) mean one is not racist? I mean, Mexico's not a race, right?

I think the answer to that question is YES....not racist. Is that your position, anyone but Mexicans can come here?

I'm not of ANYONE in today's political sphere has that opinion. Are you implying that is the Trump party position? Because it certainly is not. He and his followers are opposed to anyone from south of our border immigrating and especially from those "shithole" African countries. He wants more immigrants from Norway and Sweden. He is not racist against Swedes, no matter what color they are.

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/11/16880750/trump-immigrants-shithole-countries-norway

I read this twice and it reads like those who follow Trump are racist. I'm not a Trump follower or a follower of the Democrat controlled House but that's a false statement stating that Trump's followers are all racists. I know folks who are straight GOP voters (and Trump followers) but they aren't racists. Trumps "shithole countries" comment sure sounds racist to me. As I stated previously Omar has a strong dislike for Israel and I think she is a racist too.
Also last week the Democrat controlled House passed HR1 the "For the People" act. There are some things in the bill that I like such as dealing with campaign financing, ending gerrymandering and making it easier to get registered to vote. It also gives illegal immigrants a right to vote in local elections. Gee, I wonder what party most of these illegal immigrants are going to vote for. That's a deal killer. If you want to vote come here legally instead of breaking the law and basically butting in to the front of the line.
Going back to immigration most knowledgeable folks I talk to who are honest about this issue make a distinction between legal and illegal immigration. That's the issue with the Southern border. As BW referred to are all these folks going to be able to find full time employment long term. Our immigrant policy needs to be driven by what is in the best interests of our country. Will US citizens who have been here for years be able to have stable employment for years to come? The US has lost more than 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000 despite increased output. Outsourcing jobs and more recently robotics are both factors. With advances in robotics and technology in general will there be enough jobs to go around in 20 years? Universal Basic Income is being experimented with in some countries and being discussed by the Socialist wing of the Democratic party. It's in our best interest to grant citizenship to folks to have the skills to contribute and stay employed long term.

by 19delta Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:44 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:
19delta wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:Rape is not a "sexual relationship."

Meh, Vox....

So you are disputing the incidents detailed in the article? It's not an opinion piece...

Vox is ENTIRELY opinion. I expected better of you.

I try not to click on Vox (it only encourages them) but from the link: "calling Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists"

This is a common in the MSM. Did Trump say all Mexicans were rapists? Including the women? Including the children? What was the context in media at that time? HuffPo and others were reporting that up to 80% of Central American women get raped on their journey north. The number is less when including Mexican women, but it's still about 1/3.... A movie had just been released about illegal immigrants being detained and ransomed back (by the cartels) to their families on the journey across. When did most Americans learn what MS-13 was and is doing? After Trump's comments.

The incidents discussed in both articles happened. They are well documented. Do a simple Google search on any of them and you will get tons of hits back.

The incidents highlighted in both articles are not things that the author THINKS that Trump did or said. They are actually things that Trump DID or SAID. Now, you may take issue with how the authors chose to interpret those comments or actions and that is fair. However, there is no denying that Trump actually did and said these things.

by 19delta Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:48 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:
19delta wrote:So you are disputing that these incidents occurred?

I used to write for a small weekly paper. I was #FakeNews. Because my readers only wanted to read about Metamora football. I wrote ENTIRELY TRUE articles, that when paired with selective application of adjectives and hyperbole, made Metamora seem larger and better than the actual events. I once wrote about a loss to Geneseo, and people commented that reading the article they thought we won, but seeing the box score, they realized we lost.

That's Vox. And CNN. And Fox. And NYT. And WaPo. Yada yada....

No. It is not the same.

Again...the incidents that are mentioned in both articles alleging Trump's racism are true. Those tare things that Trump actually did or said. They aren't #FakeNews. Those things he said or did are the box score.

by BirdWatcher Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:10 pm

19delta wrote:Those tare things that Trump actually did or said.

Without context, you have nothing. You probably believe the "very fine people" hoax where Trump's words, taken out of context, suggest he was praising White nationalists & Antifa. The White Nationalists were shouting anti-Semitic stuff. Trump's daughter & grand-kids & top advisers are Jewish. Did Trump praise those people? Nope. Didn't happen. Antifa is the weaponized wing of the Democratic party. Was Trump praising antifa? Nope. Didn't happen.

You could have Googled his entire statement, but you didn't. It doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion. CNN quotes the "very fine people on both sides" part, but leaves out the preceeding disclaimers. Nice.

Much easier just to follow this guy: https://blog.dilbert.com/2018/02/14/charlottesville-fake-news-best-persuasion-play-past-year/

by BirdWatcher Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:14 pm

19delta wrote:The incidents discussed in both articles happened.

And I'm a very good writer. I could take those same facts (about the Housing problems when rent controls were implemented) and write a splendid piece praising the Trump organization. And I could use only true facts. Of course, I'd leave out other facts, and not provide context, and surely I would put some damning "quotes" to bolster my case.

by Teetime Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:05 pm

Here is the full text of the 8/15/17 presser after Charltottesvile:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662

And her is the full text of the Saturday 8/12/17 statement:

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/14/context-president-donald-trumps-saturday-statement/

I'm reminded that the 8/15/17 presser was scheduled to be about the infrastructure plan they were about to unveil. A year and a half later it's still under wraps.

by OSUBucks Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:05 pm

Teetime wrote:Here is the full text of the Saturday 8/15/17 presser after Charltottesvile:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/15/full-text-trump-comments-white-supremacists-alt-left-transcript-241662

And her is the full text of the 8/12/17 statement:

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/14/context-president-donald-trumps-saturday-statement/

I'm reminded that the 8/15/17 presser was scheduled to be about the infrastructure plan they were about to unveil. A year and a half later it's still under wraps.

Hell, it really doesn't matter what he said as far as I'm concerned. If anyone hasn't made up their mind about Trump by now I don't know what to tell them. He's just inattentive most of the time to what his advisors are trying to tell him, doesn't bother with details and about half of his original cabinet have already left. As I've said before it's the Democrats campaign to win but they've had the wind at their back before and managed to foul it up. I saw a new poll today that shows Biden and Sanders far ahead of the rest of the candidates. I know it is early but there's a lot of ground to make up for the other candidates. Name recognition is a factor as many folks just don't follow politics closely and are more uninformed than the guys on this thread are. Biden is probably too old in my judgement but a lot of people find him likeable then you have the Bern, who did win a bunch of primaries when running against Hillary. Klobuchar was polling at 3% but most people don't even know that she's a Senator from Minnesota.

by BirdWatcher Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:14 pm

OSUBucks wrote:He's just inattentive most of the time to what his advisors are trying to tell him, doesn't bother with details...

sez CNN....

And I've seen other reports (not Fox) that he quickly grasps details and makes executive-like decisions.... you know, like an executive. Oh, and he fires alot of people. Are you surprised a guy whose tagline is "You're Fired" fires alot of people?

I didn't vote for him. Don't like him (or most New Yorkers). If the Libertarians don't put up a good candidate and he wins the Nobel, I might have to in 2020.

by OSUBucks Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:30 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:He's just inattentive most of the time to what his advisors are trying to tell him, doesn't bother with details...

sez CNN....

And I've seen other reports (not Fox) that he quickly grasps details and makes executive-like decisions.... you know, like an executive. Oh, and he fires alot of people. Are you surprised a guy whose tagline is "You're Fired" fires alot of people?

I didn't vote for him. Don't like him (or most New Yorkers). If the Libertarians don't put up a good candidate and he wins the Nobel, I might have to in 2020.

I voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian and former New Mexico Governor. I couldn't force myself to go for Trump or crooked Hillary. I can't believe Trump grasps details quickly. I see him at press conferences in which he acknowledges folks standing next to him and calls them by the wrong name. He had Tim Cook the CEO of Apple with him and introduced him as Tim Apple. Laughing

There are other such examples too. He's past his prime, it happens.
I have to add this one, Lockheed Martin CEO Marillyn Hewson was introduced as Marillyn Lockheed. You can't make this shit up. Laughing

by Head Idiot Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:15 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-ignore-left-their-peril-midwesterners-aren-t-scared-socialism-ncna889741

by OSUBucks Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:44 pm

Head Idiot wrote:https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-ignore-left-their-peril-midwesterners-aren-t-scared-socialism-ncna889741

This Gallup poll from last August is interesting. I was mildly surprised by this but not shocked. Sanders exceeded my expectations in the 2016 Primary.
If Trump does run in 2020 his campaign will have a tone that he's running against Socialism you can bet on that.
Pelosi said today that she isn't receptive to pursuing Impeachment charges against Trump. She wants the Democratic nominee to run against him.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/09/03/what-would-a-socialist-america-look-like-219626

by BirdWatcher Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:40 am

OSUBucks wrote:....calls them by the wrong name. He had Tim Cook the CEO of Apple with him and introduced him as Tim Apple.

I don't have TV, and so don't see the videos, but Dilbert-creator and Trump-win-predictor Scott Adams did. Episode 447.

Context. It's important. Skip to 13:00 if you want to skip the "fine people" hoax update.
https://blog.dilbert.com/?utm_source=dilbert.com&utm_medium=site&utm_campaign=brand-engagement&utm_content=navigation

by OSUBucks Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:08 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:....calls them by the wrong name. He had Tim Cook the CEO of Apple with him and introduced him as Tim Apple.

I don't have TV, and so don't see the videos, but Dilbert-creator and Trump-win-predictor Scott Adams did. Episode 447.

Context. It's important. Skip to 13:00 if you want to skip the "fine people" hoax update.
https://blog.dilbert.com/?utm_source=dilbert.com&utm_medium=site&utm_campaign=brand-engagement&utm_content=navigation

I listened to Dilbert's take as you suggested. I'm skeptical of his explanation that Trump knew their names but referred to them in that way because he was just trying to be brief. Besides you could argue that it's disrespectful to introduce someone and not identify them properly by their name. There was also the occasion after a hurricane when Trump had a short press conference with military responders. He thanked the men and made a reference to the Coast Guard. The ranking member of the group responded, "sir we're with the Air Force". There's no need to make excuses, we know that he's not detail oriented.

by Teetime Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:56 am

That is such a meaningless mistake....why would the President of the United States choose to lie about it. I really don't understand the man.

Why not just say "ya...I botched that up, sorry Tim". That would be the last thing said about it.

by Head Idiot Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:40 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/11/opinions/national-emergency-is-economic-inequality-and-greed-love/index.html

by Teetime Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:30 pm

Head Idiot wrote:https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-ignore-left-their-peril-midwesterners-aren-t-scared-socialism-ncna889741

Carlos Ramirez-Rosa

Carlos Ramirez-Rosa has served as alderman of Chicago’s 35th Ward since his election to the City Council in 2015. Queer, Latinx and a democratic socialist, Ramirez-Rosa served as a deportation defense organizer prior to his election. He was also an elected Bernie Sanders delegate to the 2016 DNC, and was named an “emerging power player” by Chicago Magazine in 2017 for organizing a broad people-power base that holds him accountable and fights for progressive policies.

by Head Idiot Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:02 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154287

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