Re: Phase 4 = high school football?

by dusty7 Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:12 pm

ramblinman wrote:
dusty7 wrote:
ramblinman wrote:
dusty7 wrote:https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/08/10/asymptomatic

This article states asymptomatic individuals carry the same viral load but because they are not coughing and sneezing spread it does not spread as efficiently.

So it's okay then for them to be lining up across the LOS inches apart from each other's faces, huffing and puffing? Hey, at least they aren't coughing and sneezing, right?

And, many of the reports I have read with respect to spreading the virus indicate that the most contagious stage of an infected individual is shortly after becoming infected and immediately preceding the onset of symptoms. So, that means that those who are infected and ultimately will become symptomatic are the most contagious before they start feeling ill. Kind of renders the absence of coughing or sneezing argument somewhat moot.

Although there are many reports, here is an excerpt from one of them: "In brief, evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be detected in people 1-3 days before their symptom onset, with the highest viral loads, as measured by RT-PCR, observed around the day of symptom onset, followed by a gradual decline over time." https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/transmission-of-sars-cov-2-implications-for-infection-prevention-precautions

And here is one more: "Researchers estimate that people who get infected with the coronavirus can spread it to others 2 to 3 days before symptoms start and are most contagious 1 to 2 days before they feel sick." https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-incubation-period

As is the case with this entire thing, find a study that says one thing and another study says the complete opposite. This just shows how the "science and data" have now become politicized. When doctors and hospitals receive extra revenue from having a high number of COVID + patients, they are going to try and keep the narrative going for the sake of $$$, which is wrong and against the Hippocratic Oath in my opinion. There is just no 100% truth out there, it is all slanted toward the reds, the blues, and those who can profit. Just take the study on mayocarditis after infection, everybody went nuts and got worried then a few days later it comes out all individuals in the study were 45+ years old, the author probably just wanted to get some notoriety and their 15 minutes of fame and a spot on a national news network.

There is no truth and I would say not a single politician, government entity, or alphabet soup bureaucracy has been very transparent throughout this entire pandemic and has done all they can to gain publicity and support for their next election. Not saying some have not done a good job, but it seems this is starting to become about themselves and their next election.

On another note, the current 7 day US Positivity is at the same level it was during the first week of July. Is the 2nd wave over? When will be expecting a 3rd wave?

Okay, so I looked at that article from the advisory board that you cited. You totally picked what you wanted from that article to suit your narrative. Specifically, you picked up on the following: "Benjamin Cowling, an epidemiologist at the University of Hong Kong who was not involved in the study, added that the results "confirm what we've suspected for a long time—that asymptomatic cases can transmit infection." However, Cowling said, because asymptomatic people don't cough or sneeze, they might not be as efficient at spreading the virus as symptomatic people."

So this is a single epidemiologist COMMENTING on the report that was published in JAMA. His COMMENT was not a report in and of itself, and he was not a part of the study. Furthermore, the guy says that the results of the study CONFIRM that asymptomatic cases of COVID can transmit the infection, but you CHOSE NOT to mention that, instead you claim that the "article states" that asymptomatic cases MIGHT not be as efficient at spreading the virus because they aren't coughing or sneezing. Really, though, it was an opinion offered by one person...who also stated that asymptomatic cases can transmit the virus.

Further, the article you cited went on to say, "On the other hand, symptomatic patients often stay home to recover from Covid-19, while asymptomatic patients who could be unaware they're carrying the virus may continue with their everyday routines, potentially infecting others,..." but you CHOSE NOT to mention that. So, basically, within the same article, you have two comments, one of which suited your narrative regarding asymptomatic carriers, and one that did not. Then, when I gave you two references regarding when people are the most contagious, from the MANY references on that topic that are out there, you turn it political.

Lame.

I don’t necessary disagree with what you posted, that’s why I didn’t respond. Numerous studies have been done on every facet of this virus and the results seem to vary based upon your source. All I am saying is how can we trust our sources when the results are so varied from the experts?

Yes I did take that comment from a Dr that was not necessarily involved in the study but he’s a Dr, so some would say he is considered an expert. Doctors comment on studies that they did not take part in all of the time. We seem to trust Fauci and he is not involved in all of these studies but he makes suggestions all the time based on the findings, so that point is just LAME on your part. Did I use that to further my narrative? Absolutely! You don’t think the national media is doing the same thing? Politicians aren’t doing the same thing? We all do you, yourself included. That is what you do in a debate and this pandemic has turned into a debate not a health crisis. The problem is that their are so many different facts that do not meet what is actually happening so it is hard to determine who to trust.

Do asymptomatic individuals spread the virus, absolutely they do, the study proves that. But their spread is minimal unless, it was a close contact which was defined as living in the same household. And even then it was at what many would consider a low level. You found information that was the opposite but not necessarily 100% accurate. The information I found may not be accurate with but all were peer reviewed and published by the experts. So who is right?

The only fact is that the death rate is much lower than what was expected and another fact is that a majority an overwhelming majority, over 95% will of people will recover from this virus.

by OSUBucks Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:34 pm

Since this pandemic started about 35,000 Americans under the age of 65 have died. There are about 271 million of us under age 65.

by dusty7 Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:26 pm

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there were 40.3 million U.S. residents 65 years and older in the 2010 Census and more than 54 million on July 1, 2019. Source - Census.gov

35,000/54,000,000 = .000648 or .06% of population over 65 has died of COVID.

Not sure where you got the 35,000 from but I keep seeing that 8/10 deaths are people over the age of 65, a simple google search.

As of today we have 173,000 deaths, we take 80% of those we get 138,400

138,400/54,000,000 = .00256 or .256% of population over 65 has died of COVID.

by OldTitan Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:42 pm

The numbers don't lie!

by OSUBucks Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:01 pm

Scott Steiner had some guns! I'm not familiar with his math though. Smile

by Head Idiot Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:46 pm

Saw this on IHSS and found it interesting-

24 of the 26 states where there is a Republican governor are allowing high school football in their states; 7 of the 24 where there is a Democratic governor are not

by OSUBucks Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:45 pm

Head Idiot wrote:Saw this on IHSS and found it interesting-
24 of the 26 states where there is a Republican governor are allowing high school football in their states; 7 of the 24 where there is a Democratic governor are not

If I didn't know better I'd say politics is playing a roll in this. Wink

by tps Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:36 pm

OSUBucks wrote:Scott Steiner had some guns! I'm not familiar with his math though.

Big papa pump...classic

by dusty7 Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:16 am

Pretty sad that 25 minutes away from my house they had games in Lowell Indiana and we have a positivity of 4.2 and Indiana is 9.6.

Once again I will ask, what in the hell are we doing in Illinois, other than continuously screwing these kids?

by BirdWatcher Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:20 pm

In local action, Alvin York Institute won 6-3 Friday night. All points for York were by their female placekicker!

by OSUBucks Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:16 pm

Today the statewide positivity rate in Illinois was 3.6%. I know Ohio and Indiana are playing HS football. Teams have already played 2 games and I haven't heard anything yet indicating that there are problems. Illinois needs to get HS football started right away rather than in the Spring.

by dusty7 Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:57 pm

A quote from your governor, he is now making a decision for us.

"This is not a political decision. I know there are people who would like me to simply make a political decision to allow people to endanger themselves."

"We have the lowest positivity rate in the midwest. Still too high....... Those states decided to engage the children and families in those states by allowing certain contact sports to take place, that is their decision. It's not something that is good for the families and the children of Illinois."

How did we become so complacent as people and allow ourselves to be ruled by 1 person who's power, for the time being, is unchecked by the other branches of state government?

by OSUBucks Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:05 pm

dusty7 wrote:A quote from your governor, he is now making a decision for us.

"This is not a political decision. I know there are people who would like me to simply make a political decision to allow people to endanger themselves."

"We have the lowest positivity rate in the midwest. Still too high....... Those states decided to engage the children and families in those states by allowing certain contact sports to take place, that is their decision. It's not something that is good for the families and the children of Illinois."

How did we become so complacent as people and allow ourselves to be ruled by 1 person who's power, for the time being, is unchecked by the other branches of state government?

I'm not voting for him when he comes up for reelection next time. The GOP needs to find another Jim Thompson but there aren't many of those guys around. Ed Orgeron said today that most of his team has already had COVID19 and he's hoping that they don't get infected again. I don't think any of his guys got very sick, let alone hospitalized. Pritzker is full of sh**.

by dusty7 Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:47 pm

OSUBucks wrote:
I'm not voting for him when he comes up for reelection next time. The GOP needs to find another Jim Thompson but there aren't many of those guys around. Ed Orgeron said today that most of his team has already had COVID19 and he's hoping that they don't get infected again. I don't think any of his guys got very sick, let alone hospitalized. Pritzker is full of sh**.

I never voted for him and definitely will not in the future. Sadly, there are no relevant Republicans at the state level that jump out at the moment other than maybe Adam Kinzinger, who is a US Rep, but he likely would not be interested.

I saw the same thing on LSU and I am sure they are not the only team, I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was done by design so they did not lose players during the season. Not saying I agree with that either. I bet most didn't even have symptoms worse than mild allergies.

The longer it goes on, the less I see this as a Life and Death situation for most people.

The recovery rate in Illinois is 96% and 4,515 of the 8,332 deaths (54%) have been at Long Term Care Facilities, of which HS kids and their families do not visit, and 5,735 of 8,332 deaths (68%) are those over the age of 70.

The highest infection rate is for 20-29 year olds with 53,011 cases and a total of 34 deaths, that's .064%.

by Head Idiot Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:49 pm

dusty7 wrote:
How did we become so complacent as people and allow ourselves to be ruled by 1 person who's power, for the time being, is unchecked by the other branches of state government?

To quote the Joker- "You get what you \"f\"ing deserve"

Illinois. Mad

by Head Idiot Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:21 pm

I just paused to think during my workout as to what would happen if I were still coaching during this debacle.

I eventually decided it's best I got out. I more than likely would get fired for the way this is being handled. Very Happy

by Head Idiot Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:25 am

OSUBucks wrote:
dusty7 wrote:A quote from your governor, he is now making a decision for us.

"This is not a political decision. I know there are people who would like me to simply make a political decision to allow people to endanger themselves."

"We have the lowest positivity rate in the midwest. Still too high....... Those states decided to engage the children and families in those states by allowing certain contact sports to take place, that is their decision. It's not something that is good for the families and the children of Illinois."

How did we become so complacent as people and allow ourselves to be ruled by 1 person who's power, for the time being, is unchecked by the other branches of state government?

I'm not voting for him when he comes up for reelection next time. The GOP needs to find another Jim Thompson but there aren't many of those guys around. Ed Orgeron said today that most of his team has already had COVID19 and he's hoping that they don't get infected again. I don't think any of his guys got very sick, let alone hospitalized. Pritzker is full of sh**.

To be blunt, he doesn't care if you, or really anyone in downstate votes for him. His base is happy and he only has to win 1 county to get re-elected. He only won 14 in 2018 and won by 700,000 votes. Pat Quinn only won one county in 2014 and only lost by 140,000 votes. Rauner won 29 counties while getting over 70% of the vote in those counties in 14 and only won by 140k. It doesn't matter what we think.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-illinois-pritzker-poll-20200914-qng5sjq3efdttiyclgwjgf3jdm-story.html?outputType=amp

by OldTitan Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:08 am

OSUBucks wrote: The GOP needs to find another Jim Thompson but there aren't many of those guys around.

I would take a Jim Edgar too. Unfortunately, the rabid right base of the current GOP base makes the nomination of a moderate Republican almost impossible.

by lefty120 Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:40 am

Head Idiot wrote:I just paused to think during my workout as to what would happen if I were still coaching during this debacle.

I eventually decided it's best I got out. I more than likely would get fired for the way this is being handled.

HI I'd love to hear your perspective on if you believe we should be playing HS football right now...I respect your opinion and thoughts on stuff and as a current Head Coach, I have so many mixed emotions. It seems that every day I go from one extreme to the other...one day I feel like we need to wait and see what happens in the winter months and the current IHSA plan is sound; then the next day I'm sitting on my back porch watching high school football being played all over the country on ESPN and I'm like, 'wait a minute here'...I know I speak for many HC's when I say we have a great group of kids who have continued to show up for our contact days and workouts and I'd love nothing more than to get to coach them, albeit safely and with as little risk as possible, whether it's now or in the spring.

by lefty120 Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:41 am

OldTitan wrote:
OSUBucks wrote: The GOP needs to find another Jim Thompson but there aren't many of those guys around.

I would take a Jim Edgar too. Unfortunately, the rabid right base of the current GOP base makes the nomination of a moderate Republican almost impossible.

OT I'd love your perspective as well...always very level headed and educated in your responses and I was always a fan from afar in your time as a HFC.

by Head Idiot Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:09 pm

lefty120 wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:I just paused to think during my workout as to what would happen if I were still coaching during this debacle.

I eventually decided it's best I got out. I more than likely would get fired for the way this is being handled.

HI I'd love to hear your perspective on if you believe we should be playing HS football right now...I respect your opinion and thoughts on stuff and as a current Head Coach, I have so many mixed emotions. It seems that every day I go from one extreme to the other...one day I feel like we need to wait and see what happens in the winter months and the current IHSA plan is sound; then the next day I'm sitting on my back porch watching high school football being played all over the country on ESPN and I'm like, 'wait a minute here'...I know I speak for many HC's when I say we have a great group of kids who have continued to show up for our contact days and workouts and I'd love nothing more than to get to coach them, albeit safely and with as little risk as possible, whether it's now or in the spring.

For a number of reasons, I think you should be playing. I've never been a wait to see what happens kind of guy, but with this thing we've already waisted half a year for literally no reason. We are absolutely no better off right now than we were in say April.

There's only 2 ways out of this-
1. Vaccine which is still months away, if that close- and if it works
2. Herd immunity.

Positive cases, without hospitalizations is really the only way you go forward. I heard Decatur's mayor say on the radio today that we could be looking at 2-3 years of where we are right now- the "new normal". We won't survive that.

Preventing kids from playing football, even though it has been proven it can be done safely, is just stupid, political grandstanding. And JB's base is eating it up.

It is the literal embodiment of the charge against Democrats that Republicans have been saying for years- "They don't care about your rights, thoughts, or desires. They're smarter than you, and they'll show you by legislating it."

by Teetime Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:56 pm

Head Idiot wrote:It is the literal embodiment of the charge against Democrats that Republicans have been saying for years- "They don't care about your rights, thoughts, or desires. They're smarter than you, and they'll show you by legislating it."

In my life, I have ever heard a Republican say that.

I know a lot of Republicans and not one would ever say I'm smarter than them.

by OSUBucks Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:24 pm

Pritzker doubled down today on no football. He's not even considering the idea expressed by those in the schools who say they can play safely. He's acting like a guy who is very sure that he is smarter than those who think think it can be done. Tee do you think he could be impeached over football? Wink

I don't know about Wisconsin but the rest of our bordering states are playing. Are they all wrong and Pritzker right?

by Head Idiot Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:41 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:It is the literal embodiment of the charge against Democrats that Republicans have been saying for years- "They don't care about your rights, thoughts, or desires. They're smarter than you, and they'll show you by legislating it."

In my life, I have ever heard a Republican say that.

I know a lot of Republicans and not one would ever say I'm smarter than them.

You don't listen to a lot of the other side do you?

They've been saying it for years on a number of personal freedom issues. Smoking, size of beverages, seat belt laws, mandatory vaccinations, etc. The media is out there.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1968042,00.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/12/opinion/sunday/liberals-youre-not-as-smart-as-you-think-you-are.html

by Head Idiot Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm

OSUBucks wrote:Pritzker doubled down today on no football. He's not even considering the idea expressed by those in the schools who say they can play safely. He's acting like a guy who is very sure that he is smarter than those who think think it can be done. Tee do you think he could be impeached over football? I don't know about Wisconsin but the rest of our bordering states are playing. Are they all wrong and Pritzker right?

He has an approval rating of 67% on the handling of the virus. He isn't going anywhere.

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