Ramblins Proposal (kind of)

Teams who have championship aspirations go out and seek tough opponents and the teams that do that are more successful in the postseason, and they often play in a tough conference. Some people, especially coaches, would not like the idea of being bumped up because they did the hard work during the season.

Has IC gone out and tried to schedule tough opponents year in and year out? Maybe that is why they aren't "winning" the past few years because they cannot find the games that prepare their players for the Semifinals. IC is a 3A or 4A team, they have won titles at both levels, they are where they belong.

SHG and JCA should be 5A and I don't fault them for not petitioning up to 5A. They had to go through each other and deal with Rochester and Richmond-Burton who are both formidable opponents. I honestly think if both petitioned up we would have seen both of them in the 5A championship this year instead of Kankakee and Fenwick.

Rochester is always 4A/5A borderline, usually a 4A which they have won and lost, and didn't they win the year they played 5A? So you have an argument there they should be 5A as well.

Wilmington, Nashville, Farmington, and a few others dropped down to 2A this year through no fault of their own. I think Wilmington and Nashville both could have competed in 3A and possibly had the same outcome with those two meetings in the finals.

Lena-Winslow is the only 1A team that was even close to playing up a class and probably would have given some teams in the 3A field a good run for their money.

Would Cary-Grove give Wheaton-North a game in 7A? Could Wheaton North have beat Loyola or Lockport?

You can do all you want to create "better competition" but you will also get a lot of push back from teams being bumped up. I know Ramblin says people have to get past the "punishment" point of view and see is as a "reward" but I don't see that ever happening. Kids, teams, and towns want to win. If it comes easy every once in awhile, so be it. I think there is very little that can be done in a fair manner to create stiffer competition. Just face it, some football programs are better than others. I hear it in the private school debate all of the time, don't complain about our success, go figure out a way to beat us. That is the same mentality I take towards this issue. If you don't want strong programs that are bigger, smaller, public, or private winning championships, figure out a way to beat them. That is how you will get competition.

dusty7 wrote:Would Cary-Grove give Wheaton-North a game in 7A? Could Wheaton North have beat Loyola or Lockport?

Yes and yes.

dusty7 wrote:You can do all you want to create "better competition" but you will also get a lot of push back from teams being bumped up.  I know Ramblin says people have to get past the "punishment" point of view and see is as a "reward" but I don't see that ever happening.

The only reason why that wouldn't happen is because of people holding onto the current classification system. If a new classification system is given the chance of being around for a few years, people will get used to it.

dusty7 wrote:Kids, teams, and towns want to win.

And there will still be winners...winners from more evenly balanced classes. Unchanged will be the fact that only one team in each class gets to finish their season with a win. Schools will still advance in the playoffs if they keep winning. Seriously, I'm starting to think it is odd that some people want to preserve a system that creates classes with huge competitive gulfs between top and bottom and do absolutely nothing to make them more evenly balanced.

dusty7 wrote:If you don't want strong programs that are bigger, smaller, public, or private winning championships, figure out a way to beat them.  That is how you will get competition.  

Nobody is saying they don't want strong programs winning championships. What I want are strong programs winning championships in classes that are more evenly balanced so that the championships become even more meaningful than they are now. I also want playoffs where the 31 playoff games in each class are settled by a smaller average margin of victory than what we have now. I simply don't understand the negative reaction to such a goal.

I know one thing, if JCA was in 5A or 6A this year they would have won it all. There are some folks who think they were the best team in the state this year regardless of class.

ramblinman wrote:I also want playoffs where the 31 playoff games in each class are settled by a smaller average margin of victory than what we have now.  I simply don't understand the negative reaction to such a goal.

Regardless of what you do, I don't think it is going to happen because there is no way to accurately place classes into group and then properly seed them. Every state I have looked at for the past few weeks uses enrollment for classification then uses different types of formulas to determine seeds. Michigan uses a points system based on the size of the school you defeated. Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina use various RPI rating formulas. Florida uses a Regional system to determine qualifiers, many don't like it because geographically there are several high-quality teams in the same area. Many states don't use conferences and have a district system set up and you are locked in that district for several years, and all districts are set up by enrollment. Some states have separate public and private playoffs while other include some but not all privates. And in all of these situations, you find a rate of 30-40% of games being lopsided scores.

Honestly, I like the system we have when comparing it to other states. I think we have an equitable system for making the playoffs and although there are changes that could be made to improve it, it is a pretty fair system. Not using a regional system provides more teams an opportunity to get to the playoffs plus you also get unique matchups from different regions of the state. Keeping publics and privates together creates a unique system and great matchups between public and private powerhouses but the challenge is balancing the private ability to recruit and public being locked by district lines.
There are ways we could attempt to make the playoffs more competitive and I have spent a lot of time the past few weeks trying to create a system that would create more competition and maintain the equability for each team to win it all. Both your proposal and my proposal bump teams up and I do not think the mindset of seeing that as a type of punishment for being good will ever change and I do not see the coaches in the state ever voting for a system like that.

Something could be done to improve the level of competition but the only real solution for me is to get better at football. Great programs will continue to be great and bad programs will continue to be bad. Bump them up and you may get the same results but the teams that were bumped up will have a lower chance of winning the title. I already know your response that they don't deserve to win a title, but knowing they had a better chance to win in their original class will make such a system a tough sell to get the decision-makers to approve this type of system.

Class 1A - 7A w/ No CPS.

Qualifiers that made it this year that did not make the cut were Flora, Kewanee-Wethersfield, Lake Zurich, Downers Grove South, Salem, and Villa Grove. These teams all lost in the 1st round.

1A and 2A are pretty solid with no real issues. Had IC not petitioned up they would have been in 1A.
3A has JCA and SHG along with Richmond-Burton
4A has ESL but without them and hypothetically if JCA and SHG petitioned up, from top to bottom probably the most competitive class.
5A, 6A, 7A, no issues either.

The biggest issue here is in 3A and 4A with some powerhouses being dropped down a class which would create some obvious mismatches and blowouts for them but might create better competition overall. I would assume in a system like this you would see most privates playing a class higher than what you see here, which would make the classes look much better.

1A
1 Camp Point (Central)
2 Carrollton
3 Athens
4 Moweaqua (Central A & M)
5 Abingdon (A.-Avon)
6 Toledo (Cumberland)
7 Arcola
8 Forreston
9 Rushville (R.-Industry)
10 Peru (St. Bede)
11 Lena (L.-Winslow)
12 Monmouth (United)
13 Fulton (H.S.)
14 Catlin (Salt Fork)
15 Momence
16 Ottawa (Marquette)
17 Greenfield [G.-Northwestern Coop]
18 Sesser (S.-Valier) [Coop]
19 Gilman (Iroquois West)
20 Casey (C.-Westfield)
21 Lawrenceville
22 Mt. Sterling (Brown County)
23 Clifton (Central)
24 Aurora (A. Christian)
25 Macon (Meridian)
26 Colfax (Ridgeview) [Coop]
27 Arthur (A.-Lovington-Atwood-Hammond)
28 Winchester [West Central Coop]
29 Shelbyville
30 Galena (H.S.)
31 Princeville
32 Nokomis

2A
1 Decatur (St. Teresa)
2 Wilmington
3 Pana (H.S.)
4 Downs (Tri-Valley)
5 Farmington
6 Bismarck (B.-Henning-Rossville-Alvin)
7 Pecatonica [Du-Pec Coop]
8 Johnston City
9 Breese (Mater Dei)
10 Knoxville
11 Nashville
12 Fairfield
13 Mackinaw (Deer Creek-M.)
14 Sterling (Newman Central Catholic)
15 Vandalia
16 Mendon (Unity) [Coop]
17 Maroa (M.-Forsyth)
18 Aledo (Mercer County)
19 Erie [E.-Prophetstown Coop]
20 Chester
21 DuQuoin (H.S.)
22 Kankakee (McNamara)
23 Westville
24 El Paso (E.P.-Gridley)
25 Virden (North Mac)
26 Tremont
27 Beardstown
28 Elmwood [E.-Brimfield Coop]
29 Carmi (C.-White County)
30 Taylor Ridge (Rockridge)
31 Newton
32 St. Joseph (S.J.-Ogden)

3A
1 Princeton
2 Joliet (Catholic Academy)
3 Kewanee (H.S.)
4 Williamsville
5 Byron
6 Tolono (Unity)
7 Richmond (R.-Burton)
8 Braidwood (Reed-Custer)
9 Mt. Carmel
10 Breese (Central)
11 Elmhurst (IC Catholic)
12 Genoa (G.-Kingston)
13 Springfield (Sacred Heart-Griffin)
14 Benton
15 Monticello
16 Carlinville
17 Fairbury (Prairie Central)
18 Stillman Valley
19 Paxton (P.-Buckley-Loda)
20 Paris
21 Eureka
22 Lisle (Sr.)
23 Greenville
24 Harrisburg
25 Hoopeston (H. Area) [Coop]
26 Macomb
27 Piasa (Southwestern)
28 Monmouth (M.-Roseville)
29 Peotone
30 Mendota
31 Columbia
32 Poplar Grove (North Boone)

4A
1 Wheaton (St. Francis)
2 Morris
3 Oak Park (Fenwick)
4 Rochester
5 Mahomet (M.-Seymour)
6 Mascoutah
7 East St. Louis (Sr.)
8 Freeburg
9 Coal City
10 Sterling (H.S.)
11 Highland
12 Morton
13 Carterville
14 Rochelle
15 Country Club Hills (Hillcrest)
16 West Chicago (Wheaton Academy)
17 Evergreen Park
18 Marion (H.S.)
19 Murphysboro [Coop]
20 Quincy (Sally N D)
21 Mt. Zion
22 Marengo
23 Aurora (Marmion Academy)
24 Metamora
25 Peoria (Sally N D)
26 Dixon (H.S.)
27 Olney (Richland County)
28 Cahokia (H.S.)
29 Plano
30 Jacksonville (H.S.)
31 Carbondale (H.S.)
32 Bethalto (Civic Memorial)

5A
1 Kankakee (Sr.)
2 Cary (C.-Grove)
3 Lemont (H.S.)
4 Wauconda
5 Washington
6 Lake Forest (H.S.)
7 Glen Ellyn (Glenbard South)
8 Crete (C.-Monee)
9 Deerfield (H.S.)
10 Crystal Lake (Prairie Ridge)
11 Troy (Triad)
12 Antioch
13 Belvidere (North)
14 Rock Island (H.S.)
15 Sycamore (H.S.)
16 Peoria (H.S.)
17 Crystal Lake (Central)
18 Chicago (St. Patrick)
19 Springfield (H.S.)
20 LaGrange Park (Nazareth Academy)
21 Grayslake (Central)
22 Chatham (Glenwood)
23 Vernon Hills
24 Normal (Community West)
25 Rockford (Boylan Catholic)
26 Maple Park (Kaneland)
27 Dunlap
28 Midlothian (Bremen)
29 LaSalle (L.-Peru)
30 Champaign (Centennial)
31 Crystal Lake (South)
32 Lake Villa (Lakes)

6A
1 Mt. Prospect (Prospect)
2 Normal (Community)
3 Moline (H.S.)
4 Plainfield (Central)
5 Algonquin (Jacobs)
6 Elgin (Larkin)
7 Wheaton (North)
8 Rockton (Hononegah)
9 Hoffman Estates (H.S.)
10 Buffalo Grove
11 Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
12 Batavia
13 Villa Park (Willowbrook)
14 New Lenox (Lincoln-Way West)
15 Arlington Heights (Hersey)
16 Chicago (St. Rita)
17 Wheaton (W. Warrenville South)
18 Rolling Meadows
19 Yorkville (H.S.)
20 Collinsville
21 Geneva
22 Lansing (Thornton Fractional South)
23 Libertyville
24 South Holland (Thornwood)
25 Pekin
26 Blue Island (Eisenhower)
27 Palos Heights (Shepard)
28 Hampshire
29 Machesney Park (Harlem)
30 Rockford (East)
31 Riverside (R.-Brookfield)
32 Oak Lawn (Richards)

7A
1 Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
2 South Elgin
3 Naperville (Neuqua Valley)
4 Lockport (Twp.)
5 Park Ridge (Maine South)
6 Gurnee (Warren)
7 Hinsdale (Central)
8 Frankfort (Lincoln-Way East)
9 Elmhurst (York)
10 Chicago (Brother Rice)
11 Plainfield (North)
12 Glenview (Glenbrook South)
13 Palatine (H.S.)
14 Naperville (North)
15 Naperville (Central)
16 Bolingbrook
17 Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West)
18 Chicago (Marist)
19 Oswego (H.S.)
20 Carol Stream (Glenbard North)
21 Lombard (Glenbard East)
22 Oswego (East)
23 Evanston (Twp.)
24 Minooka
25 Orland Park (Sandburg)
26 Winnetka (New Trier)
27 O'Fallon (H.S.)
28 Barrington
29 LaGrange (Lyons)
30 Plainfield (East)
31 Bartlett
32 Edwardsville (H.S.)

Most of the non public schools would be multiplied if not for the Covid years so the JCA's and SHG's etc and would be most likely pretty close to their usual class.