Cubs in complete rebuild mode

Yesterday it was Rizzo traded to Yankees. Today Kimbrel to White Sox and Baez to Mets. Just a minute ago I got an ESPN notification that Bryant looks to be going to the Giants.
Rizzo was not only a very good player but just a great person and one of the popular players ever. As a Cardinal fan I will miss not seeing him on the field. Cub fans will need to be patient for a while during this rebuilding.

Amazing 24 hours for White Sox Nation.

19delta wrote:Amazing 24 hours for White Sox Nation.

Yep they got Tepera as well as Kimbrel. I won’t be surprised if the Sox make it to the World Series.

Everybody knew it was coming to an end for the Cubs but I believe that they could have done it in less of a peeling off a band aid method. Could have dealt a piece here and there but I think the pandemic and the false hope that they can be just as good as they were in 16 and 17 played into it as well.

As a Sox fan I am thrilled. Kimberly and Tapera add a lot to their pitching. Also, they have played with other players on the roster so there should be some added comaderie in the clubhouse. If the Sox Bats wake up they could be dominant.

dusty7 wrote:Everybody knew it was coming to an end for the Cubs but I believe that they could have done it in less of a peeling off a band aid method.  Could have dealt a piece here and there but I think the pandemic and the false hope that they can be just as good as they were in 16 and 17 played into it as well.  

As a Sox fan I am thrilled.  Kimberly and Tapera add a lot to their pitching.  Also, they have played with other players on the roster so there should be some added comaderie in the clubhouse.  If the Sox Bats wake up they could be dominant.  

I think there is a school of thought among GM's that when you have the pieces that everyone else wants, you get more in trade by waiting until the deadline and playing one suitor against the other. There is probably something to that. You are right, it felt like a band-aid being ripped off.

It looks like the Cubs have taken some pretty good steps toward rebuilding their minor league system and will have $88 million dollars less in payroll on April 1, 2022 than they did on April 1, 2021. I'll be upset only if they don't use a big chunk of that to acquire free agents over the next two years to complement the prospects they had before and the new prospects they have acquired. They also still have four or five guys on their big league roster that make the roster of the of the best teams in baseball (Hendricks, Contreras, Hoerner, Madrigal and either Davies or Mills or both).

I hope the SOX win the WS this year or next, or better yet...both. I love the team they have put together.

[quote="Teetime"]

dusty7 wrote:

I hope the SOX win the WS this year or next, or better yet...both. I love the team they have put together.

They have put together a team of really good but not great players who are both likeable and a lot of fun to watch. Really similar to the 2005 CWS. I don't think the 2021 CWS have hit their stride yet. They can be maddingly frustrating at times (the pitching debacle last night against Cleveland and the woeful series against Kansas City earlier this week, for example) and, except for a series win against Houston, they haven't even been competitive against top-tier teams. With that being said, they have a huge lead in the division and added the parts that should place them in contention for a World Series championship.

The 2005 White Sox had a disastrous final two weeks in August but managed to get the train back on the rails at the end of the season and then dominated in the postseason. I hope these guys can put it all together to make a run!

The old Cubs trio of Rizzo, Baez, and Bryant all homered in their first game with their respective team.

You are correct Delta...tht Sox are very frustrating to watch but I would rather them in there peak in Sept and not October. I was not a fan of the LaRussa hire but I believe his knowledge and ability for deep runs will benefit these players for the rest of their careers.

Teetime wrote:It looks like the Cubs have taken some pretty good steps toward rebuilding their minor league system and will have $88 million dollars less in payroll on April 1, 2022 than they did on April 1, 2021. I'll be upset only if they don't use a big chunk of that to acquire free agents over the next two years to complement the prospects they had before and the new prospects they have acquired. They also still have four or five guys on their big league roster that make the roster of the of the best teas min baseball (Hendricks, Contreras, Hoerner, Madrigal and either Davies or Mills or both).

Is it folly to think that the Cubs might use some of that salary savings to reacquire one or more of the players they traded away who are slated to become free agents after this season? The Yankees did exactly that during the Cubs WS season when the Cubs gave up then minor league prospect Gleyber Torres plus several others in a trade with the Yankees for Aroldis Chapman.  The next season, the Yankees reacquired Chapman through free agency.

Cub fans should quit complaining about ownership. Not only did they put together a team that won the World Series but they made the playoffs several other years with a chance. At the end of the day players make plays and they just didnt get it done but they had enough talent to win. As far as the guys they let go Kris Bryant as long as Scott Boras is his agent is going to be too much to sign. He is a good player but for the money he wants I dont know. Rizzo is a great guy fan favorite but he is getting up in age and has history of back issues. I do think the Cubs low balled him in some offers. Id give him a shorter contract somewhere in 3 years 22-25 Million range. Baez I could care less for. Made a ton of errors this year strikes out all the time. For all the great things he does he does something else just as head scratching. His value has done nothing but go down.

Bighitter11 wrote:Cub fans should quit complaining about ownership.  Not only did they put together a team that won the World Series but they made the playoffs several other years with a chance.  At the end of the day players make plays and they just didnt get it done but they had enough talent to win.  As far as the guys they let go Kris Bryant as long as Scott Boras is his agent is going to be too much to sign.  He is a good player but for the money he wants I dont know.  Rizzo is a great guy fan favorite but he is getting up in age and has history of back issues.  I do think the Cubs low balled him in some offers.  Id give him a shorter contract somewhere in 3 years 22-25 Million range.  Baez I could care less for.  Made a ton of errors this year strikes out all the time.  For all the great things he does he does something else just as head scratching.  His value has done nothing but go down.  

Agree with this. Baez is very athletic with a lot of raw talent but has the flaws you mentioned. He has no class and revels in showing up players on opposing teams.
Cub fans better be patient with the team because they’re not going anywhere for a while. They’ll be fighting with the Pirates to see who can stay out of the NL Central cellar.

Bighitter11 wrote:Cub fans should quit complaining about ownership.  Not only did they put together a team that won the World Series but they made the playoffs several other years with a chance.  At the end of the day players make plays and they just didnt get it done but they had enough talent to win.  As far as the guys they let go Kris Bryant as long as Scott Boras is his agent is going to be too much to sign.  He is a good player but for the money he wants I dont know.  Rizzo is a great guy fan favorite but he is getting up in age and has history of back issues.  I do think the Cubs low balled him in some offers.  Id give him a shorter contract somewhere in 3 years 22-25 Million range.  Baez I could care less for.  Made a ton of errors this year strikes out all the time.  For all the great things he does he does something else just as head scratching.  His value has done nothing but go down.  

Management did the best they could given the situation. I'm not sure what would have happened if they kept up the pace at which they played in May as they moved from fourth to first place in the division. They would have been between a rock and a hard place. The rebuild would have had to be extended by about two years if they couldn't have picked up the prospects they got.

If the Cubs go after any of the traded guys over the winter it would surprise me.

They were more than fair with Rizzo. Lots of baseball "experts" thought the Cubs were crazy to give Rizzo a seven year deal back in 2014. The team was no good and Rizzo only had about two years of big league experience. That deal ended up being a bargain 7 years for $41 Million. They offered him an extension for 5 years $70 Million that would last though age 36. I don't think those are low-ball numbers. He is a good player but not a perennial all-star.

Teetime wrote:

Bighitter11 wrote:Cub fans should quit complaining about ownership.  Not only did they put together a team that won the World Series but they made the playoffs several other years with a chance.  At the end of the day players make plays and they just didnt get it done but they had enough talent to win.  As far as the guys they let go Kris Bryant as long as Scott Boras is his agent is going to be too much to sign.  He is a good player but for the money he wants I dont know.  Rizzo is a great guy fan favorite but he is getting up in age and has history of back issues.  I do think the Cubs low balled him in some offers.  Id give him a shorter contract somewhere in 3 years 22-25 Million range.  Baez I could care less for.  Made a ton of errors this year strikes out all the time.  For all the great things he does he does something else just as head scratching.  His value has done nothing but go down.  

Management did the best they could given the situation. I'm not sure what would have happened if they kept up the pace at which they played in May as they moved from fourth to first place in the division. They would have been between a rock and a hard place. The rebuild would have had to be extended by about two years if they couldn't have picked up the prospects they got.

If the Cubs go after any of the traded guys over the winter it would surprise me.

They were more than fair with Rizzo. Lots of baseball "experts" thought the Cubs were crazy to give Rizzo a seven year deal back in 2014. The team was no good and Rizzo only had about two years of big league experience. That deal ended up being a bargain 7 years for $41 Million. They offered him an extension for 5 years $70 Million that would last though age 36. I don't think those are low-ball numbers. He is a good player but not a perennial all-star.

I'm good with the Cubs unloading their free agents to be and getting decent prospects and current ML talent in return.  I think that, had they not traded them, they would have lost most/all of them to higher bidders and come away with nothing.  It wouldn't have made any sense to get into a bidding war for those guys as they look to rebuild/retool.  Plus, they have the freed up salary that you alluded to earlier to play in the free agent market next season for some power at the corners (if there are any players like that to be had).  They are gonna need some pop from their infield and they aren't going to find much from Madrigal or Hoerner, both of whom are contact hitters.   I think the jury is still out on Wisdom (although I like what he has done this year in limited action) and Bote is not the long term solution the Cubs want at third.  

Cubs ownership has too much invested in the stadium, neighborhood, and cable network for them to suck next year.  They need to be just competitive enough in 2022 with realistic promise for them to be playoff contenders in 2023 for this to all work out, and I think it will happen.  Call it a retool not a rebuild.

Rick Telander, Chicago Sun-Times: “If Jake Arrieta had been decent as a starting pitcher, if the Cubs hadn’t lost 11 consecutive games from June 25 to July 6, if Jason Heyward weren’t batting under .200, if pitcher Adbert Alzolay weren’t 4-11, if Rizzo were hitting more homers . . . maybe the Cubs would have gone for it all instead of folding. That 11-game skid did it. The Cubs were tied for first in the National League Central on June 24, in fourth place on July 6. We waited 108 years for the 2016 World Series crown, and here we go again. Yeah, it’s sad. Yeah, it’s giving up. But for now, let’s assume this is Hoyer’s strategy, his disaster plan. One fact: The Cubs’ title team that should have started a mini-dynasty lost its mojo. Most championship teams do. No excuse, but it’s a fact. Consider that in the last seven years, there have been seven different World Series winners.”