Coronavirus IV

ramblinman wrote:
99% of new cases are among people who were not vaccinated.  I suppose people have a choice how to achieve immunity, but why they choose disease over vaccination is beyond my comprehension.

This did not age well.

dusty7 wrote:

ramblinman wrote:
99% of new cases are among people who were not vaccinated.  I suppose people have a choice how to achieve immunity, but why they choose disease over vaccination is beyond my comprehension.

This did not age well.  

Yeah, it has.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

The following is not related to new cases, but is certainly related to the the huge difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated:

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination

ramblinman wrote:

dusty7 wrote:

ramblinman wrote:
99% of new cases are among people who were not vaccinated.  I suppose people have a choice how to achieve immunity, but why they choose disease over vaccination is beyond my comprehension.

This did not age well.  

Yeah, it has.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

The following is not related to new cases, but is certainly related to the the huge difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated:

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination

The vaccine is not providing people with immunity, if it did, people would not be getting COVID after being vaccinated.

dusty7 wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:There are breakthrough cases for sure but the vaccine keeps you from dying and in most instances keeps you out of the hospital. There are people dying every day and most of them by far are unvaccinated people. That tells me that you’re better off vaccinated than unvaccinated, in fact an unvaccinated person is 47 times more likely to die from Covid than a vaccinated one.
Having said that if you’re a healthy person the chances of Omicron variant killing you are pretty slim so you could argue that people are being too paranoid. One more thing, in two weeks 70% of Covid cases in the US will be Omicron.

So do we continue calling it a vaccine?   We cannot compare these vaccines to Small Pox, Chicken Pox, Measles, Mumps, and Rubella.  These vaccines are not effective at preventing infection but are effective at preventing severe sickness. The so called vaccines are not the fix they just improve the odds.  

Even those who are boosted are getting sick.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/i-have-covid-jim-cramer-says-he-says-hes-been-triple-vaccinated-and-has-a-mild-case.html

Yeah 70% may be Omicron which seems to be nothing more than a common cold for most so where is the pandemic?   Deaths have not increased significantly and hospitalizations have leveled off in the last week.  

I believe we have to move to the point where we stop counting positive cases because at this point they are almost meaningless.  We are all going or have already gotten COVID and will likely get it again and again.  The focus should be on treating those who are really sick not publicizing those who have the sniffles or are asymptomatic.  We can't continue to treat this like we did in 2020.  We will never stop the spread no matter how hard we try.

We have moved to an era of personal responsibility. Want to wear a mask, wear a mask.  Want to get vaxed, get vaxed.  If you don't do those things then you are more at risk than those who have done those things.  But if you have done those things, the science says you are safe. Do you not trust the science?   I reiterate, we will all get it if we haven't already and will likely go get it again.  Time to move on.

Just wait until personal daily tests become the norm.  I am sure JBs Abbott Labs is already a leading candidate in that one.

Scientists spent a long time developing vaccines for such viruses as measles, mumps etc. in the case of Covid which was suddenly thrust upon us we didn’t have the luxury of spending years developing a vaccine that would provide you with 100% immunity from contracting the disease. They came up with a vaccine in less than a year that will keep the virus from killing you and in a high percentage of cases keep you out of the hospital. You can still get Covid though, experience mild symptoms and pass Covid on to someone else. The current vaccines aren’t perfect but have saved tens of thousands of lives. Given how quickly they were developed I don’t think it’s worth complaining about though. Maybe future vaccines will even be better. I’m hopeful that with each new variant we will be on a trajectory of them being less deadly.

States with the most new cases per capita are Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas and North Dakota.

OSUBucks wrote:States with the most new cases per capita are Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas and North Dakota.

But what are their hospitalizations?  That is really all that matters at this point.  Efforts to stop the spread have failed multiple times and will fail again in the future.  Time to stop treating every case like we did when this first started.

Millions of people have survived and have the antibodies along with millions being vaccinated and millions being boosted. Deaths have started to rise but not at the levels we have seen with other surges. This is what the "vaccine" has helped but it has not created immunity, which the scientist and govt officials said it was doing.

We need to focus more on treating those who are sick not making up ridiculous mitigations at stopping the spread. In Chicago, after January 3 you have to have proof of vaccination to do almost anything. Why wait until Jan 3, why not tomorrow? If this is so bad, why wait 2 weeks to "stop the spread?" Because once the virus does it's thing and numbers start dropping a few days after the mitigations, the idiots in charge can claim it was their policies that caused the decrease. How many times are they going to play this game?

dusty7 wrote:

ramblinman wrote:

dusty7 wrote:

ramblinman wrote:
99% of new cases are among people who were not vaccinated.  I suppose people have a choice how to achieve immunity, but why they choose disease over vaccination is beyond my comprehension.

This did not age well.  

Yeah, it has.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

The following is not related to new cases, but is certainly related to the the huge difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated:

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination

The vaccine is not providing people with immunity, if it did, people would not be getting COVID after being vaccinated.

Vaccinated people are getting COVID because no vaccine is 100% effective.  There have been strains and variants of the virus that have developed since the vaccines were developed.   Effectiveness wanes, so if you are "fully vaccinated" but not yet boosted, then your immunity wanes as well. If you are fully vaccinated and boosted, you are far less likely to become infected than someone who is unvaccinated. FAR less.

If the vaccine wasn't providing most people with immunity, why are the unvaccinated much more likely to become infected, become hospitalized, or die from COVID?

ramblinman wrote:

dusty7 wrote:

ramblinman wrote:

dusty7 wrote:

ramblinman wrote:
99% of new cases are among people who were not vaccinated.  I suppose people have a choice how to achieve immunity, but why they choose disease over vaccination is beyond my comprehension.

This did not age well.  

Yeah, it has.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

The following is not related to new cases, but is certainly related to the the huge difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated:

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination

The vaccine is not providing people with immunity, if it did, people would not be getting COVID after being vaccinated.

Vaccinated people are getting COVID because no vaccine is 100% effective.  There have been strains and variants of the virus that have developed since the vaccines were developed.   Effectiveness wanes, so if you are "fully vaccinated" but not yet boosted, then your immunity wanes as well.  If you are fully vaccinated and boosted, you are far less likely to become infected than someone who is unvaccinated.  FAR less.

If the vaccine wasn't providing most people with immunity, why are the unvaccinated much more likely to become infected, become hospitalized, or die from COVID?

I've said many times the vaccine does prevent serious illness, I've never said it didn't. But we were all told we would not contract COVID of we were vaxed. That did not happen. Lots of people may have had COVID but thought it was just allergies or a cold because they believed the vaccine prevented them from getting COVID.

I am hopeful that Omicron is going to have a very low fatality rate. As viruses mutate it’s fairly common for them to become less lethal. As I’ve said more than once if we can improve our vaccination rate we are better off. I don’t think we ever get to 80%. I saw Sarah Palin on TV yesterday. She said she’d die before she’d get the shot. Just think this dumbass almost became our Vice President.

dusty7 wrote:I've said many times the vaccine does prevent serious illness, I've never said it didn't.  But we were all told we would not contract COVID of we were vaxed. That did not happen.

We weren't told that at all.  

From the very start, we were all told that no vaccine was 100% effective.  From the start, we were all told to get one dose of J&J and two of Pfizer and Moderna.  Did everyone do that?  How many people got none or just one of the latter two options?   For the past several months, we were all told to get a booster six months after our last dose.  Did everyone do that?  We were all told  the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are less effective with just a single dose and we were all told that the effectiveness of all three vaccines wanes to the point where a booster is needed after six months to boost the effectiveness.  We were all told these things.  

What we weren't told was that we would not contract COVID if we were vaxxed. If you think "we were all told we would not contract COVID if we were vaxxed," then show me that.  Show me who said it, when they said it, and what they said.  Don't bother to show me quotes like, "The best way to not get COVID is by getting vaxxed."  That's not the same thing as saying you won't get COVID if you get vaxxed.

ramblinman wrote:

dusty7 wrote:I've said many times the vaccine does prevent serious illness, I've never said it didn't.  But we were all told we would not contract COVID of we were vaxed. That did not happen.

We weren't told that at all.  

From the very start, we were all told that no vaccine was 100% effective.  From the start, we were all told to get one dose of J&J and two of Pfizer and Moderna.  Did everyone do that?  How many people got none or just one of the latter two options?   For the past several months, we were all told to get a booster six months after our last dose.  Did everyone do that?  We were all told  the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are less effective with just a single dose and we were all told that the effectiveness of all three vaccines wanes to the point where a booster is needed after six months to boost the effectiveness.  We were all told these things.  

What we weren't told was that we would not contract COVID if we were vaxxed.  If you think "we were all told we would not contract COVID if we were vaxxed," then show me that.  Show me who said it, when they said it, and what they said.  Don't bother to show me quotes like, "The best way to not get COVID is by getting vaxxed."  That's not the same thing as saying you won't get COVID if you get vaxxed.

as much as i hate this conversation, i thought everyone and their mother already knew that viruses have no cure.

sleepy joe told us if we get the vax we won't get covid.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3337872/biden-wrong-covid-vaccine-claim-breakthrough-infections/

let's go bran-don

And back in January 2020 the President said it’d probably all go away in a couple weeks. Oh that was Trump. Trump gave a speech yesterday and he said that he had gotten the booster. He got booed by some of his supporters.

It wasn't just Trump saying "2 weeks to stop the spread" it was pretty much every virologist and Lord Fauci himself proclaiming it it was short term.

Studies from South Africa where Omicron originated indicate it has a lower risk of hospitalization than other variants.  Also, their cases are dropping as fast as they rose which shows this surge could be over by the 2nd week in January.  Just in time for all the new restrictions on restaurants to kick in.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-22/omicron-has-80-lower-risk-of-hospitalization-new-study-shows?srnd=premium&sref=ixxiOWGT

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/586582-top-health-expert-says-theres-no-indication

On January 30,2020 the WHO declared Covid as a Global Health Emergency. Trump wasn’t convinced. In a September 2020 interview with Bob Woodward Trump admitted that he had downplayed the seriousness of the virus in the early months.

OSUBucks wrote:On January 30,2020 the WHO declared Covid as a Global Health Emergency. Trump wasn’t convinced. In a September 2020 interview with Bob Woodward Trump admitted that he had downplayed the seriousness of the virus in the early months.

I do not think Trump was the only person in his administration to downplay the health emergency.

dusty7 wrote:  But we were all told we would not contract COVID of we were vaxed. That did not happen.  Lots of people may have had COVID but thought it was just allergies or a cold because they believed the vaccine prevented them from getting COVID.

Dusty, you usually have your facts right...but not now.

No scientist said that you wouldn't get COVID if you were vaxed. They all know better and they said, with the release and approval of each vaccine what it's efficacy was. It was always expressed in terms of a percentage.

Pfizer 91.3%
Moderna 90.0%
J&J 72%

If people believed that a vaccination prevented the disease they weren't paying attention to scientists.

I thought you were?

tps wrote:sleepy joe told us if we get the vax we won't get covid.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3337872/biden-wrong-covid-vaccine-claim-breakthrough-infections/

let's go bran-don

I can only imagine your glee when you found this gem after searching on Google for it. Or do you expect us to believe that you pay so much attention to "sleepy joe" and hang on his every word such that you actually remember him saying this FIVE months ago in a CNN town hall?

For the record, Biden's press secretary walked back Biden's incorrect assertion the following day.

Teetime wrote:

dusty7 wrote:  But we were all told we would not contract COVID of we were vaxed. That did not happen.  Lots of people may have had COVID but thought it was just allergies or a cold because they believed the vaccine prevented them from getting COVID.

Dusty, you usually have your facts right...but not now.

No scientist said that you wouldn't get COVID if you were vaxed. They all know better and they said, with the release and approval of each vaccine what it's efficacy was. It was always expressed in terms of a percentage.

Pfizer  91.3%
Moderna  90.0%
J&J  72%

If people believed that a vaccination prevented the disease they weren't paying attention to scientists.

I thought you were?

I am following the science but the unvaxed Americans are not. I am just trying to bring to light the amount of misinformation on both sides. Many people believe that a "vaccine" prevents you from getting the illness you are inoculated for. See MMR, Chicken Pox, Small Pox, Polio, and Meningitis for your examples. Those vaccines may not be 100% but I bet you know some who has had COVID but nobody who has had small pox or polio.

Many people in today's society only see what the social media bots want them to see and are not as informed on the correct details as some as others. The general public is highly misinformed because of the political nature that this pandemic has become.

All that I am trying to show people is why those who are unvaxed have reservations about being unvaxed and why there is such a distrust of the government and it's policies to end the pandemic.

I believe if there was more political unity more people would be vaccinated but we would still be in the same place we are right now, probably fewer hospitalizations, but Omicron would still be present. COVID should have never become political but both sides of our government are just as guilty as the other.

As for myself, I sick and tired of the constant badgering of getting vaccinated and boostered by politicians. Minds have already been made up and the only thing that will change it is some of me close to you by getting severely sick. Of people want to assume the risk, let them assume the risk. You take care of you and do what you do, there is no reason to blame or put down those who think differently or have acted differently than you.

I totally agree with you Dusty on the divisions in this country. I’ve never seen it this bad and I don’t see it getting any better any time soon. I blame Trump for some of it for perpetuating this lie over and over that he won the election. About 35% of the country believe him and they’re pissed. They even attacked our capital in January. Without a doubt we could put this Pandemic behind us if we got over 80% of our citizens vaccinated. We won’t though because of ignorance. That irritates a lot of people who are tired of the Pandemic and want their lives to get back to normal. People are scared and wary about where we’re at right now. Illinois sold more guns in 2020 than any year in history. Some think they might need to use them against their government at some point. I know some of these folks who think this way. These are scary times.

Take people's personal liberties away for any reason and you are going to upset a faction of people.

The right isn't happy about vax mandates and the left isn't happy about the anti-abortion laws. Both are public health issues that involve individual choice. Take the individual choice away and people will are willing to fight in any way to keep their right.

The only way out is to stop the visceral reaction to people you don't agree with. Just leave it be. It is okay to disagree and not insult people that you don't agree with. That is why we are where we are.

ramblinman wrote:

tps wrote:sleepy joe told us if we get the vax we won't get covid.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3337872/biden-wrong-covid-vaccine-claim-breakthrough-infections/

let's go bran-don

I can only imagine your glee when you found this gem after searching on Google for it.  Or do you expect us to believe that you pay so much attention to "sleepy joe" and hang on his every word such that you actually remember him saying this FIVE months ago in a CNN town hall?  

For the record, Biden's press secretary walked back Biden's incorrect assertion the following day.

Don't ask a question if you don't want an answer.

Chicago has similar rules to this for entertainment venues and it makes no sense to me.

https://www.wcia.com/news/u-of-i-athletic-events-to-require-proof-of-covid-vaccine-or-negative-test/

Situation A: You are vaccinated but experiencing mild symptoms or even no symptoms, enjoy the game.

Situation B: Unvaccinated experiencing no symptoms, you cannot enter the building.

Stupid, stupid stupid.

dusty7 wrote:
As for myself, I sick and tired of the constant badgering of getting vaccinated and boostered by politicians. Minds have already been made up and the only thing that will change it is some of me close to you by getting severely sick.  Of people want to assume the risk, let them assume the risk.  You take care of you and do what you do, there is no reason to blame or put down those who think differently or have acted differently than you.  

Sorry not sorry that you are sick and tired of the badgering.  

What data do you have to support your contention that minds have already been made up?  Here are my data https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker that show that minds are still being made up.  If minds were already made up, as you contend, we wouldn't have seen an increase of almost seven percentage point rise in the percentage of the population with at least one vaccination in the last two months.  It also shows that a large majority of children ages 5-11 have still not been vaccinated, and about half of young people aged 12-18 have not been jabbed.  I want to believe that these population segments have not had their first dose yet because they were only relatively made available to them and not because they, or their parents, have made up their minds not to vaccinate their children.  The messaging needs to continue.

Furthermore, I will argue with your final contention that there is no reason to blame or put down those who think differently than I do with respect to vaccination.  In the last week of November, the U.S. COVID hospitalization rate per 100K of population was 67.8 for unvaccinated people, and 3.9 for vaccinated people.  This is putting a fully preventable strain on our healthcare system such that there are currently four regions in Illinois, for example, that have 8 or fewer available ICU beds.  You want us to take care of us and what we do, but those who choose to "take care" of themselves by not getting vaccinated are incurring medical expenses of multiple billions of dollars a month that are being absorbed by insurance companies and the government.  https://www.chiefhealthcareexecutive.com/view/hospitalizations-for-unvaccinated-patients-with-covid-19-cost-billions  These are fully preventable expenses and guess who is going to wind up paying for them?   All taxpayers and people who pay insurance premiums...not just the people you don't want to blame or hold accountable.

ramblinman wrote:

dusty7 wrote:
As for myself, I sick and tired of the constant badgering of getting vaccinated and boostered by politicians. Minds have already been made up and the only thing that will change it is some of me close to you by getting severely sick.  Of people want to assume the risk, let them assume the risk.  You take care of you and do what you do, there is no reason to blame or put down those who think differently or have acted differently than you.  

Sorry not sorry that you are sick and tired of the badgering.  

What data do you have to support your contention that minds have already been made up?  Here are my data https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker that show that minds are still being made up.  If minds were already made up, as you contend, we wouldn't have seen an increase of almost seven percentage point rise in the percentage of the population with at least one vaccination in the last two months.  It also shows that a large majority of children ages 5-11 have still not been vaccinated, and about half of young people aged 12-18 have not been jabbed.  I want to believe that these population segments have not had their first dose yet because they were only relatively made available to them and not because they, or their parents, have made up their minds not to vaccinate their children.  The messaging needs to continue.

Furthermore, I will argue with your final contention that there is no reason to blame or put down those who think differently than I do with respect to vaccination.  In the last week of November, the U.S. COVID hospitalization rate per 100K of population was 67.8 for unvaccinated people, and 3.9 for vaccinated people.  This is putting a fully preventable strain on our healthcare system such that there are currently four regions in Illinois, for example, that have 8 or fewer available ICU beds.  You want us to take care of us and what we do, but those who choose to "take care" of themselves by not getting vaccinated are incurring medical expenses of multiple billions of dollars a month that are being absorbed by insurance companies and the government.  https://www.chiefhealthcareexecutive.com/view/hospitalizations-for-unvaccinated-patients-with-covid-19-cost-billions  These are fully preventable expenses and guess who is going to wind up paying for them?   All taxpayers and people who pay insurance premiums...not just the people you don't want to blame or hold accountable.

I don't care if you are sorry, I was just saying I'm sick of it.

Yep we will have to pay for all of them just like we pay for smokers who get lung cancer, obese people who get cancer, and a myriad of other diseases that are mostly preventable. Should we create mandates against people smoking, drinking, and eating too much fast food? Those people assume the risk of bad health and it costs the tax payers billions every year as well. Under your frame of thinking, laws should be makes against those people as well.

When we allow the government to legislate our individual liberties we will lose those liberties. In Illinois we have been under an emergency order since March 2020 which has given the governor undue power in areas he should not have control. At what point do we allow them to stop legislating our lives?