Coronavirus IV

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I do my best to respect all that at least appear to be educated, but I still can't figure out why the mask wearing thing became such a hot button issue for so many on both sides of the aisle.  The bottom line is people way smarter than 99.5% of the U.S. population say we should have been wearing them...so my family and I did.  I didn't look at it as a 'Government vs. the People' deal like many anti-maskers did.  I looked at it as 'hey, smart people think these might help, lets do it'.

These video's I see of people going off on Costco employees (Ricky Schroeder is a complete tool) just kill me.  What's the point of that?  Throw a mask on, go buy your shit, and leave and take it off.  It's not a big deal.  But that's where our nation is today; everything is a big deal.  It's hard to listen to people say that the masks weren't necessary or they don't work etc...the influenza numbers alone verify that they did. And lets say that they didn't help against COVID that much...okay, fine, but I'd say that keeping the influenza virus down during a pandemic that involved another serious respiratory virus was a pretty good call.

There will be some who can't get the vaccine due to pre-existing conditions...there will be some who scream from the mountain tops that they won't get it for all kinds of other reasons, many of which are pure conjecture on their part, and there will be many that do and have gotten it.  As I've stated before, I listen to the smart people in my life and the one's I trust...they said get it without hesitation...so I did and so will my family.  

Here's a really good question:  next fall rolls around...High School A is 4-4 and heading into a win and get in week 9 game...their stud RB is exposed to COVID...he hasn't been vaccinated...county health department says he's out 2 weeks...two words come to mind 'OH BOY!'.  I can't even imagine the political firestorm that would cause.  My son is going to be a sophomore and he said he wants to get vaccinated solely so he doesn't get quarantined next fall...so another question is, if parents all over our state were so willing to sign waivers and let their kids play this fall risking their health and the health of their families...what are they going to do this summer when the state says vaccinated kids don't have to quarantine?

lefty120 wrote:Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I do my best to respect all that at least appear to be educated, but I still can't figure out why the mask wearing thing became such a hot button issue for so many on both sides of the aisle.  The bottom line is people way smarter than 99.5% of the U.S. population say we should have been wearing them...so my family and I did.  I didn't look at it as a 'Government vs. the People' deal like many anti-maskers did.  I looked at it as 'hey, smart people think these might help, lets do it'.

These video's I see of people going off on Costco employees (Ricky Schroeder is a complete tool) just kill me.  What's the point of that?  Throw a mask on, go buy your shit, and leave and take it off.  It's not a big deal.  But that's where our nation is today; everything is a big deal.  It's hard to listen to people say that the masks weren't necessary or they don't work etc...the influenza numbers alone verify that they did. And lets say that they didn't help against COVID that much...okay, fine, but I'd say that keeping the influenza virus down during a pandemic that involved another serious respiratory virus was a pretty good call.

There will be some who can't get the vaccine due to pre-existing conditions...there will be some who scream from the mountain tops that they won't get it for all kinds of other reasons, many of which are pure conjecture on their part, and there will be many that do and have gotten it.  As I've stated before, I listen to the smart people in my life and the one's I trust...they said get it without hesitation...so I did and so will my family.  

Here's a really good question:  next fall rolls around...High School A is 4-4 and heading into a win and get in week 9 game...their stud RB is exposed to COVID...he hasn't been vaccinated...county health department says he's out 2 weeks...two words come to mind 'OH BOY!'.  I can't even imagine the political firestorm that would cause.  My son is going to be a sophomore and he said he wants to get vaccinated solely so he doesn't get quarantined next fall...so another question is, if parents all over our state were so willing to sign waivers and let their kids play this fall risking their health and the health of their families...what are they going to do this summer when the state says vaccinated kids don't have to quarantine?

I totally agree with you. I've never been an anti-masker or anti-covid person whatsoever but the "smart" people or the "experts" seem to have changed their minds many times through this entire thing which causes me to question their decisions. At a point in time during the pandemic, it was completely necessary and likely helped limit the spread. The issue I have is that the vaccines were proven to be effective in preventing serious infection and shedding of the virus if you were positive but asymptomatic but still wearing a mask was theatre, it was about the optics even Fauci admitted this yesterday. This move by the experts, decision-makers, whatever you want to call them, undermined the vaccine effort because there are some people out there (I am not one of them) that say, if I still have to wear a mask, what's the point of the vaccine? It seems like we had a change from "you wear a mask to protect those around you" to "if those around you aren't vaccinated and aren't wearing a mask, it's their problem."

As for you football question, if vaccinated kids don't have to quarantine (and they shouldn't be forced if they are vaccinated), I can see many parents changing their mind.  I am sure many schools will say if a kid is vaccinated they do not have to wear a mask during school, this will definitely change many minds of parents.  From who I talk to, it sounds about 50/50 on vaccinating adolescents but I think we will see a change because the gov't is starting to incentivize getting vaccinated by giving away tickets to Great America, Cubs/Sox games, Lollapalooza, $1 million raffles, etc. By coming out and saying "athletes and students who are vaccinated will not be required to quarantine due to contact tracing," would cause many parents and adolescents to decide to get the vaccine.  

But you still have a problem for kids under 12, does anything change for them?  It is well known that serious infection and hospitalization numbers are extremely low for this group, much lower than the seasonal flu, so is this group forced to maintain the current "status quo?" Some people will say absolutely, keep masking the little ones for the safety of the adults, but isn't it up to the adults to get vaccinated? Are you going to continue to push measures on little kids for the protection of an adult who is able to get the vaccine?

I'd agree it'll be interesting to see what happens with elementary age kids. I could honestly see it going both ways.

I think the smart people have changed their minds at times because this is such a new virus and how it affects people has been so wide ranging, from some getting no symptoms, to some who appear to be healthy getting it and dying quickly. I think it's also been a trial to see how the vaccine's work in people and how it affects their ability to not pass it along to others.

I'd agree that the whole thing has been a stress on your patience level and regardless of where you sit on any of the issues...I'm ready for a normal summer and start to the school year.

lefty120 wrote:Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I do my best to respect all that at least appear to be educated, but I still can't figure out why the mask wearing thing became such a hot button issue for so many on both sides of the aisle.  The bottom line is people way smarter than 99.5% of the U.S. population say we should have been wearing them...so my family and I did.  I didn't look at it as a 'Government vs. the People' deal like many anti-maskers did.  I looked at it as 'hey, smart people think these might help, lets do it'.

These video's I see of people going off on Costco employees (Ricky Schroeder is a complete tool) just kill me.  What's the point of that?  Throw a mask on, go buy your shit, and leave and take it off.  It's not a big deal.  But that's where our nation is today; everything is a big deal.  It's hard to listen to people say that the masks weren't necessary or they don't work etc...the influenza numbers alone verify that they did. And lets say that they didn't help against COVID that much...okay, fine, but I'd say that keeping the influenza virus down during a pandemic that involved another serious respiratory virus was a pretty good call.

There will be some who can't get the vaccine due to pre-existing conditions...there will be some who scream from the mountain tops that they won't get it for all kinds of other reasons, many of which are pure conjecture on their part, and there will be many that do and have gotten it.  As I've stated before, I listen to the smart people in my life and the one's I trust...they said get it without hesitation...so I did and so will my family.  

Here's a really good question:  next fall rolls around...High School A is 4-4 and heading into a win and get in week 9 game...their stud RB is exposed to COVID...he hasn't been vaccinated...county health department says he's out 2 weeks...two words come to mind 'OH BOY!'.  I can't even imagine the political firestorm that would cause.  My son is going to be a sophomore and he said he wants to get vaccinated solely so he doesn't get quarantined next fall...so another question is, if parents all over our state were so willing to sign waivers and let their kids play this fall risking their health and the health of their families...what are they going to do this summer when the state says vaccinated kids don't have to quarantine?

what HE said ^

I went to the gym today and there was a sign on the door that said that vaccinated people no longer have to wear a mask. I took off my mask and put it in my pocket. It felt pretty good. I don’t really mind wearing a mask if I’m grabbing a few items at the store but working out is different.

OSUBucks wrote:I went to the gym today and there was a sign on the door that said that vaccinated people no longer have to wear a mask. I took off my mask and put it in my pocket. It felt pretty good. I don’t really mind wearing a mask if I’m grabbing a few items at the store but working out is different.

Was ANYONE (other than staff) wearing a mask in your gym when you were there?  If not, then your gym members are clearly way ahead of the vaccination curve.

I was in a Chicago bar/restaurant filled almost exclusively with 20 and 30 somethings recently, and none of them were wearing masks. I thought it was such serendipity that I was around all those obviously vaccinated people.

Illinois Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,750,034
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 37.49

source: https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

ramblinman wrote:
I was in a Chicago bar/restaurant filled almost exclusively with 20 and 30 somethings recently, and none of them were wearing masks.  I thought it was such serendipity that I was  around all those obviously vaccinated people.  

People have a choice not to go to the restaurant or walk out if they don't feel safe. Maybe they were all vaccinated and maybe they weren't.  If you are vaccinated there is very little for you to worry about. If those individuals get sick, it is very unlikely that they will experience a severe illness, at least that what the data states.

On the way into work I heard in regards to ISBE saying all schools will be in-person next summer, someone asked about masks for the unvaccinated children under 12 and they stated that unless there is an outbreak within the school or community, there is no need for the children to mask.  I believe that we are nearing the point in the pandemic where it should be treated like the flu. If an outbreak occurs, 1. the most vulnerable are vaccinated or at least had that choice, and 2. the adults (which experience more severe symptoms) have been vaccinated or at least at that choice, so you take the extra precautions when warranted.

ramblinman wrote:
Illinois Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,750,034
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 37.49

source: https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

The 4.7 million fully vaccinated population is over 3x the number of total confirmed cases in the state. The rolling average for the state is starting to tick up and I believe we will continue to see a slow increase in the average of vaccines administered per week for the next several weeks.

ramblinman wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:I went to the gym today and there was a sign on the door that said that vaccinated people no longer have to wear a mask. I took off my mask and put it in my pocket. It felt pretty good. I don’t really mind wearing a mask if I’m grabbing a few items at the store but working out is different.

Was ANYONE (other than staff) wearing a mask in your gym when you were there?  If not, then your gym members are clearly way ahead of the vaccination curve.  

I was in a Chicago bar/restaurant filled almost exclusively with 20 and 30 somethings recently, and none of them were wearing masks.  I thought it was such serendipity that I was  around all those obviously vaccinated people.  

Illinois Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,750,034
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 37.49

source: https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

Sangamon County is a little above the state wide average with 42% fully vaccinated. I noticed some other people in the gym not wearing masks. They were more mid aged people and I’m sure they have been vaccinated as these guys are regulars in the gym and previously these guys were wearing masks like myself. I did see some people including a couple trainers wearing masks. There was an employee at the front desk who doesn’t look older than 30 who wasn’t wearing a mask that surprised me a little but maybe he has been vaccinated too.
For those whose Dr. has recommended that they don’t get vaccinated because of a health issue I would get a second opinion before making the decision of not getting vaccinated. If a second professional source recommends that you shouldn’t get vaccinated then I’d probably comply.
I’m hopeful for good football weather and full stadiums in the fall.

Looks like Trump may have been correct about the origins of the virus back in March of 2020. I understand that there has been more research completed since he made these statements but some criticized him for even making this assumption.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/politics/trump-intelligence-community-china-coronavirus-origins/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/30/donald-trump-coronavirus-chinese-lab-claim

Now leading scientists Gottlieb and Fauci are saying all signs point to the virus starting in a lab.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/24/gottlieb-says-theres-growing-circumstantial-evidence-that-covid-may-have-originated-in-a-lab.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/05/24/fauci-not-convinced-covid-19-coronavirus-developed-naturally-sot-vpx-newday.cnn

I read the links. It still sounds like they’re not sure though the idea that it originated from a Chinese lab is possible. They aren’t saying that they think the Chinese deliberately released the virus to the world. I don’t blame anyone from disbelieving Trump if he is right about this given the numerous times he has lied to the American people. Publicly referring to the virus as the Asian flu has probably led to a lot of the hate crimes committed against Asian citizens this year too IMO.

OSUBucks wrote:I read the links. It still sounds like they’re not sure though the idea that it originated from a Chinese lab is possible. They aren’t saying that they think the Chinese deliberately released the virus to the world. I don’t blame anyone from disbelieving Trump if he is right about this given the numerous times he has lied to the American people. Publicly referring to the virus as the Asian flu has probably led to a lot of the hate crimes committed against Asian citizens this year too IMO.

I don't disagree with any of this.  I don't think there is any way it was a conspiracy by China to cause harm to other countries or anything like that. However, it is becoming more likely that it was a lab-produced virus, which happens all of the time, that was released into the public.

If it was accidentally released from a Chinese lab, which is definitely possible, what an incredibly massive mistake it was, given both the human and economic toll it has wrought on the planet.

Here’s more on the potential origin of the virus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/coronavirus/timeline-how-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-suddenly-became-credible/ar-AAKlIOr

Updated vaccine data

Rolling 7-Day Average
5/17 - 56,593 (lowest since vaccine was available to all 18+)
5/24 - 79,485 - that's quite an increase

5,112,262 (40.12%) are fully vaccinated but over 50% of those eligible have been vaccinated.

As a nation we are at 50%.

dusty7 wrote:Looks like Trump may have been correct about the origins of the virus back in March of 2020. I understand that there has been more research completed since he made these statements but some criticized him for even making this assumption.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/politics/trump-intelligence-community-china-coronavirus-origins/index.html

Nobody should make assumptions about the origins of the virus. It will, in time, be a proven fact. President Trump may end up having guessed correctly, how will that have helped in any way with the battle against the virus? I think it may have gotten a few Oriental people beaten up...did that help?

Here are most of the things the former president said about the virus. It would really be cherry picking to give him credit for one or two of these statements being correct:

https://doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-trump-s-coronavirus-responses

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551/timeline-what-trump-has-said-and-done-about-the-coronavirus

Teetime wrote:

dusty7 wrote:Looks like Trump may have been correct about the origins of the virus back in March of 2020. I understand that there has been more research completed since he made these statements but some criticized him for even making this assumption.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/politics/trump-intelligence-community-china-coronavirus-origins/index.html

Nobody should make assumptions about the origins of the virus. It will, in time, be a proven fact. President Trump may end up having guessed correctly, how will that have helped in any way with the battle against the virus? I think it may have gotten a few Oriental people beaten up...did that help?

Here are most of the things the former president said about the virus. It would really be cherry picking to give him credit for one or two of these statements being correct:

https://doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-trump-s-coronavirus-responses

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551/timeline-what-trump-has-said-and-done-about-the-coronavirus

I'm not glorifying Trump's actions in any way. More could have and should have been done from the beginning by all levels of government, going beyond just locking everything down.  I'm just saying that the same people who were criticizing him for "guess" or making this assumption are the same people who are agreeing with that "guess" or assumption right now. If nobody should be making assumptions then you should be criticizing Fauci, Gottlieb, and countless others for assuming that this was created in a lab, it's what they are all saying right now.

At all levels, the organizations (WHO and others) attempting to find the origin have been influenced by politics and money and sadly that will probably determine the original source of COVID.

dusty7 wrote:If nobody should be making assumptions then you should be criticizing Fauci, Gottlieb, and countless others for assuming that this was created in a lab, it's what they are all saying right now.

I’m happy to criticize anyone who presumes to know the origin without proof.

A pox on all of them.

This is promising news for having regular sports next year. Very low numbers for spread across the board, only 3% traced back to practice or competition. With overall case numbers continuing to drop and vaccine numbers continuing a slow increase, hopefully, we can can have nomal seasons next year and not have cancellations for numerous teams because 1 person tested positive.

https://www.pjstar.com/story/sports/high-school/2021/05/27/ihsa-covid-survey-mitigations-helped-keep-high-school-sports-safe/7457367002/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

dusty7 wrote:This is promising news for having regular sports next year. Very low numbers for spread across the board, only 3% traced back to practice or competition. With overall case numbers continuing to drop and vaccine numbers continuing a slow increase, hopefully, we can can have nomal seasons next year and not have cancellations for numerous teams because 1 person tested positive.  

https://www.pjstar.com/story/sports/high-school/2021/05/27/ihsa-covid-survey-mitigations-helped-keep-high-school-sports-safe/7457367002/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

(i couldn't access the article, so i apologize if this bit of infor was in there) my understanding is that those who are fully vaccinated will NOT have to quarantine if they have been in close contact with someone who tests positive, unless they start to show symptoms themselves.

Today we have 401/24,273 positive cases of COVID-19 in the past 24 hours.  That is the lowest number since 3/25 (330 of 2,724 Tests).  To compare to the day after memorial day last year, there were 1,178/21,643 on 5/25/20. We have had 25 straight days under 2,000 new cases and 9/10 days under 1,000 new cases.  With 11,308,983 doses being administered and 5,278,187 (41.43%) of the population being vaccinated (over 50% of eligible are fully vaccinated).

JB says we will be in Phase 5 on June 11, everything will be open as normal.

For the US, our 7 day average (18,913) is the lowest it has been since 3/29/20, when it was 18,841.

167,733,972 (50.5%) of the US population has received 1 dose
135,087,319 (40.7%) of the US population is fully vaccinated.

85.9% of the elderly have received 1 dose while 74.8% are considered fully vaccinated.

National positivity rate bottomed out around 1.66% back in mid June, and we have risen to 5.47% in less than a month.

99% of new cases are among people who were not vaccinated. I suppose people have a choice how to achieve immunity, but why they choose disease over vaccination is beyond my comprehension.

Hot spot states are FL, LA, AR, MO, WY, UT, NV.

ramblinman wrote:National positivity rate bottomed out around 1.66% back in mid June, and we have risen to 5.47% in less than a month.  

99% of new cases are among people who were not vaccinated.  I suppose people have a choice how to achieve immunity, but why they choose disease over vaccination is beyond my comprehension.

Hot spot states are FL, LA, AR, MO, WY, UT, NV.

Yes people do have a choice and it is their individual choice and regardless of their choice, they should not be ridiculed or forced into making that choice.  Although, they need to understand the risk they are putting themselves and other non-vaccinated individuals in by not being vaccinated, they should not be discriminated because of their decision. They may have a medical condition or allergy or something else that prevents them from being able to get tht vaccine.  

Those who want the vaccine have got it and there are many still on the fence.  Short-term it is effective with minimal side effects.  Long term, we don't know yet and that is why some are still apprehensive.  

Even with the current increases we are nowhere near what we were at and likely won't see it again due to the vaccines.  As new variants are discovered the vaccine has proven to be effective and with the current research they should be able to adapt the vaccine to the current strains, mich like the flu.  One could argue that positivity has risen because of a drastic decrease in testing and more of those with symptoms being tested.  I have not looked at the numbers so I don't know if this is fact or not.

People are still dying from Covid every day and 99%+ of those fatalities are folks who haven’t been vaccinated. It’s not going to be nearly as bad this year as last year because 55% of us have been vaccinated and the vaccine is highly effective. Unless a person has a preexisting condition that his or her doctor would advise that they not get vaccinated I don’t know why one would pass on getting vaccinated. I know some people who refuse to get vaccinated because they don’t like being told what to do. That’s fine but there is some risk in that and some of those folks will end up hospitalized with Covid and some will die.

OSUBucks wrote:I know some people who refuse to get vaccinated because they don’t like being told what to do. That’s fine but there is some risk in that and some of those folks will end up hospitalized with Covid and some will die.

Seems to me like a very high price to pay for a "Don't Tread on Me" attitude towards a proven life saving vaccine.   Also seems to me that the same people who refuse the vaccine on the grounds of not liking being told what to do are the same ones who don't want to wear masks in public for the same reasons.  Those folks know that they become vectors of the disease if they should contract it, and they simply don't care about those around them more than they care about their libertarian principles.  That sort of attitude is what is going to keep this virus here and mutating for a very long time.

279K US lives saved by covid vaccines

dusty7 wrote:they need to understand the risk they are putting themselves and other non-vaccinated individuals in by not being vaccinated, they should not be discriminated because of their decision. They may have a medical condition or allergy or something else that prevents them from being able to get tht vaccine.

I don't know the stats on this, but I strongly suspect that the percentage of people who are un-vaxxed because of allergies or medical conditions is super small segment of the total un-vaxxed population old enough to be vaxxed.  As such, I'm not so sure I agree that non-vaxxed people old enough to be vaxxed shouldn't be discriminated against since it is clear that they, exclusively, are the ones who are contracting and spreading the disease at this point.  Do we not discriminate or take steps against those people because a small minority of them can't be vaccinated?  I'm totally fine with providing medical waivers to the outliers you are concerned with.

Smokers pay more for life insurance than non-smokers.  Do you agree with that premise?  If so, then how do you justify not discriminating against those who aren't vaxxed?