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Post by Head Idiot on Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:49 am

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Post by OSUBucks on Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:28 am


Farragut kid was going in for a layup with about :40 left and got undercut and a fight ensued. The layup puts Farragut up by 6 and the game is basically over at that point.


https://usatodayhss.com/2019/video-brawl-farragut-north-lawndale-chicago-high-school-double-forfeit
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Post by net on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:10 pm

OSUBucks wrote:

Farragut kid was going in for a layup with about :40 left and got undercut and a fight ensued. The layup puts Farragut up by 6 and the game is basically over at that point.


https://usatodayhss.com/2019/video-brawl-farragut-north-lawndale-chicago-high-school-double-forfeit

no, he dunked the ball, hung from the rim and then was undercut from the video i saw.
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Post by OSUBucks on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:36 pm

Yeah, it was a dunk but a player is allowed to hang on the rim to protect himself. He actually got undercut by a second guy when he let go of the rim. At the end of the video you can also see a Lawndale player come up from behind and punch a Farragut player.
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Post by ging on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:49 pm

the undercut didn't look intentional to me. it was a bit awkward, i would say, but not something that should have sparked a melee. i assume that tensions were high throughout the game, as would be the case at most/all sectional finals where the game is closely contested.

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Post by Ghengis Khan on Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:37 pm

ging wrote:the undercut didn't look intentional to me.  it was a bit awkward, i would say, but not something that should have sparked a melee. i assume that tensions were high throughout the game, as would be the case at most/all sectional finals where the game is closely contested.


Completely agree, looked like the dunker was slightly swinging on the rim and when he let go he came down on that kid cause he wasn't in control of himself.

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Post by net on Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:16 pm

this isn't the first time that north lawndale has been involved with this type of melee.
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Post by OSUBucks on Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:00 pm

net wrote:this isn't the first time that north lawndale has been involved with this type of melee.

The player who the dunker fell on was late arriving down the court. He didn't get there until the play was over. When the dunker left his feet for the dunk this guy was still at the top of the circle. You've got to figure that the guy hanging on the rim is going to need a place to land at some point. I think the Lawndale player intentionally placed himself in the way. I didn't arrive at that conclusion though until after watching the replay numerous times.
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Post by ging on Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:37 pm

OSUBucks wrote: I think the Lawndale player intentionally placed himself in the way. I didn't arrive at that conclusion though until after watching the replay numerous times.

the way i saw it, i think the lawndale player got there and was not aware the dunker was going to drop down then and there. and the dunker didn't realize he was there when he dropped.

no matter though. what's done is done.
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Post by Head Idiot on Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:39 pm

After having seen the video, it was a hell of a power bomb.

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Post by OSUBucks on Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:48 pm

ging wrote:
OSUBucks wrote: I think the Lawndale player intentionally placed himself in the way. I didn't arrive at that conclusion though until after watching the replay numerous times.

the way i saw it, i think the lawndale player got there and was not aware the dunker was going to drop down then and there.  and the dunker didn't realize he was there when he dropped.

no matter though.  what's done is done.

It's just too bad that the winner of that game doesn't get the opportunity to advance. I can understand wanting to come to the aid or protect a teammate but you've got to be disciplined and control your emotions at all times.
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Post by tincup1215 on Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:37 pm

ging wrote:the undercut didn't look intentional to me.  it was a bit awkward, i would say, but not something that should have sparked a melee. i assume that tensions were high throughout the game, as would be the case at most/all sectional finals where the game is closely contested.


Agreed, didn't look intentional whatsoever
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Post by Horsefeather on Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:52 am

A source that I know, whom I trust said the parents / crowd were hostile and mouthy through the entire contest and probably provoked the actions on the floor.
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Post by dusty7 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:33 pm

Horsefeather wrote:A source that I know, whom I trust said the parents / crowd were hostile and mouthy through the entire contest and probably provoked the actions on the floor.

These things always seem to start with the parents and the fans.

I wonder how long it will take for one of the teams to file a lawsuit against the IHSA.
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Post by Head Idiot on Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:45 pm

I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
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Post by OSUBucks on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:01 pm

Horsefeather wrote:A source that I know, whom I trust said the parents / crowd were hostile and mouthy through the entire contest and probably provoked the actions on the floor.

Nice way to set an example for their kids. Rolling Eyes
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Post by 19delta on Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:52 am

ging wrote:the undercut didn't look intentional to me.  it was a bit awkward, i would say, but not something that should have sparked a melee. i assume that tensions were high throughout the game, as would be the case at most/all sectional finals where the game is closely contested.


Not a basketball guy here, but I agree. To me, it did not look like the kid intentionally undercut. Maybe he did not get out of the way as cleanly as he could have, but the initial movement did not appear to be intentional.

I had an interesting conversation about this with a long-time basketball coach. He said that, had these had been schools with a bigger fan base, there probably would not have been a double forfeit. His thought was that one of the things the IHSA probably considered was that neither team would bring many fans to a supersectional game or the state title game so it made it easier to to rule the double forfeit. Not saying that was the only consideration or even the #1 consideration, but it probably came up during the discussion.
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Post by Teetime on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:43 am

I'm not buying that one.

Not having any game at all can't possibly be better for the coffers than a game that is half full.

Can't we just accept that the IHSA did the right thing? There was no winner of that game. It could not be safely continued in the opinion of the game officials.

Both teams participated in that melee and one should not be rewarded with a win in an incomplete game while the other gets a loss. That would be a bad precedent. If that were the ruling there would be a coach somewhere that would add that trick to his end of game strategy.

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Post by wolverine55 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:48 am

I personally think the decision to "double forfeit" was too immediate for them to take any talk of the attendance into account. From seeing the video myself, I think if a couple Farragut players simply keep their composure and not go after the kid who undercut the dunker, I don't think the fight happens. Plus, I don't think it was intentional either.
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Post by 19delta on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:58 am

Again...I'm not a basketball guy. Just relying what a guy who has been coaching for 30+ years said. And he said it wasn't a big reason but probably did play into the decision in some way, shape, or form.
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Post by ging on Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:27 am

Teetime wrote:I'm not buying that one.

Not having any game at all can't possibly be better for the coffers than a game that is half full.

i agree with this ^
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Post by OSUBucks on Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:41 pm

wolverine55 wrote:I personally think the decision to "double forfeit" was too immediate for them to take any talk of the attendance into account.  From seeing the video myself, I think if a couple Farragut players simply keep their composure and not go after the kid who undercut the dunker, I don't think the fight happens.  Plus, I don't think it was intentional either.

I don't think that attendance was a factor either. The prevailing opinion on here was that the undercut was unintentional. The Farragut player obviously thought the same thing I did in that it was intentional as that's why he shoved the guy who undercut the dunker. That's beside the point though and you guys might very well be right. The guy who shoved the guy who undercut set in motion everything that happened afterward. If he had kept his composure and not shoved that kid Farragut's season wouldn't be over as they had the game in hand at that point.
As for the IHSA's reasons they probably just wanted to send a message to basketball players that there will be harsh repercussions for fighting. Also the state finals weekend is broadcast throughout the state of Illinois and a lot of eyes see those games. It's a bad look for HS Sports if there's a brawl at one of those games. Possibly they didn't want to take a chance with either of those two teams but it's probably just a case of sending a clear message.
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Post by wolverine55 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:43 pm

Yes and I think the IHSA caught some criticism for not punishing severe enough--if they punished at all--for a fight involving Alton earlier in the year so probably making sure that didn't happen again either.
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Post by Big E on Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:42 pm

Come on...it is a HS basketball game. It is not AAU. It is supposed to be educational based athletics. No fighting. If you break that rule...you lose. If there is do not leave the bench. Simple.
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