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Phase 4 = high school football?

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Post by Head Idiot on Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:12 pm

ramblinman wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:
ramblinman wrote:
wolverine55 wrote:While I agree there are many at risk besides the players, you could have just simply said that without taking your typical passive aggressive insult at us “younger adults.” There’s nothing wrong with hoping there is a season. Blow it out your ass

There is a difference between hoping there is a season (as I do) and complaining about the possibility of not having one (as many are doing).  As someone who is old enough to collect social security benefits, I'm sick and tired of being told that I and my same age peers should be responsible for our own health during the pandemic and allow the less at-risk people do whatever the hell they want.  So, those who want us older folks to take care of ourselves while they get to go about their lives as if there is no pandemic had better not also be the ones to complain if there is no football because officials my age and older are busy safeguarding our own health in the pandemic. How ironic it would be if football were allowed to happen but it couldn't happen because the very ones who complained didn't see fit to step up to become officials.
Translation- in true Boomer fashion- I don't give a shit about any other generation. You should all rearrange your entire lives and futures to pacify us. ME! ME! ME!

PS- I'm pretty dang close to that 50.

Interesting.  Seems to me that the young whippersnappers telling all us old folks to simply watch out for ourselves while they do whatever the eff they want in the pandemic is a pretty selfish thing.  The problem with the "You do you, I'll do me" attitude in a pandemic is how you do you impacts how I have to do me.

Have you looked at the U.S. daily new cases curve versus that of most European countries?  They have successfully plateaued their daily new cases numbers WAY down in comparison to the U.S.  Ours are plateauing at a far higher number and actually going up in recent days.  Why?  Because they had the balls to stick it out and we didn't.  Because of selfish people who don't give a shit about older people, or at-risk people, or people who live in big cities, or people who live anywhere other than their little corner of nirvana.  Because of people who got tired of social distancing so they just stopped.  Because of people who rebel against state and local restrictions and take a don't tread on me.  Because of people who don't want to wear a mask because they don't want to endure the minor inconvenience or discomfort.
Talk about selfish!
Please spare me the "I care more!" bullshit. You don't give a \"f\"ing about me or anyone else on this board. If I died tomorrow, you wouldn't know, nor would you give a shit. Please stop trying to repeatedly play the moral high card.

Far more people's lives have been permanently ruined trying to protect you than have beenlost to this disease. How much more do you want? Just a little more right? After 60 years of you guys' bullshit, we're tired of it.
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Post by OSUBucks on Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:18 pm

Good post Dusty and I hope everything works out ok with your dad. If I had to guess I'd say for Illinois HS football this year our chances are about 60/40 against. We live in the bluest state in this part of the country and I think the blue states are more likely to shutdown over this than the red ones.  Some folks think that if one life can be saved by canceling football you should do it. Athletics do a lot of good for the thousands of athletes who participate every year so I'm not in the camp that would cancel the season for one life. You have to do what's best for the most people IMO.
As far as college football goes football is the primary revenue source that funds other sports programs. Some non Division 1 schools have already canceled some sports at their schools. If there is any way to have even a shortened season they are going to want to do it. If the NCAA pulls the plug on football it's not going to go over well. I won't be surprised if the P5 football conferences break with the NCAA in the next 5 years anyway. If they pull the plug on football that could very well increase the likelihood of that happening.
The media is using statistics to deceive the public on how bad the Pandemic is right now. They keep saying that there's a big spike in the US. When counting the number of states with spikes they are including states like Idaho, Montana and Wyoming which still have very low case numbers. There are a handful of Southern states that are having big increases now but overall there are fewer Covid19 deaths in the country now than a month ago.
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Post by Head Idiot on Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:37 pm

OSUBucks wrote:Some folks think that if one life can be saved by canceling football you should do it.
This is the mindset that drives people such as myself insane. People die doing all sorts of things. To act like you can save all people's lives from death just kind of shows how far away we've gotten from actually living.
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Post by Head Idiot on Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:38 pm

Separate story- couple of guys I played against in HS' mom died at one of their games eating popcorn. Her son scored a TD, she went to cheer and choked to death.

Maybe we should ban popcorn. If it saves just one life...
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Post by ramblinman on Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:50 pm

OSUBucks wrote:Good post Dusty and I hope everything works out ok with your dad. If I had to guess I'd say for Illinois HS football this year our chances are about 60/40 against. We live in the bluest state in this part of the country and I think the blue states are more likely to shutdown over this than the red ones.  Some folks think that if one life can be saved by canceling football you should do it. Athletics do a lot of good for the thousands of athletes who participate every year so I'm not in the camp that would cancel the season for one life. You have to do what's best for the most people IMO.
As far as college football goes football is the primary revenue source that funds other sports programs. Some non Division 1 schools have already canceled some sports at their schools. If there is any way to have even a shortened season they are going to want to do it. If the NCAA pulls the plug on football it's not going to go over well. I won't be surprised if the P5 football conferences break with the NCAA in the next 5 years anyway. If they pull the plug on football that could very well increase the likelihood of that happening.
The media is using statistics to deceive the public on how bad the Pandemic is right now. They keep saying that there's a big spike in the US. When counting the number of states with spikes they are including states like Idaho, Montana and Wyoming which still have very low case numbers. There are a handful of Southern states that are having big increases now but overall there are fewer Covid19 deaths in the country now than a month ago.

If football is allowed, I'm thinking it won't complete more than half a season. Nationally, we are not bending the curve of new daily cases. It has plateaued at best and is starting back up at worst. The virus is out there and is not going away. The season will be cut short for one or more of a myriad of reasons, including:

1. Schools shut down again and return to distance learning.
2. Too many players or coaches become infected with the virus.
3. Not enough officials.
4. The IHSA will realize the season is a sham because of all the forfeits, and it will shut down the season for everyone, even schools in those rural areas where nobody seems to ever get infected.
5. The IHSA will bow to pressure from member schools, ISBE, and IDPH to shut down the season due to a spike in infections among players and coaches and officials.
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Post by ramblinman on Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:56 pm

Head Idiot wrote:
ramblinman wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:
ramblinman wrote:
wolverine55 wrote:While I agree there are many at risk besides the players, you could have just simply said that without taking your typical passive aggressive insult at us “younger adults.” There’s nothing wrong with hoping there is a season. Blow it out your ass

There is a difference between hoping there is a season (as I do) and complaining about the possibility of not having one (as many are doing).  As someone who is old enough to collect social security benefits, I'm sick and tired of being told that I and my same age peers should be responsible for our own health during the pandemic and allow the less at-risk people do whatever the hell they want.  So, those who want us older folks to take care of ourselves while they get to go about their lives as if there is no pandemic had better not also be the ones to complain if there is no football because officials my age and older are busy safeguarding our own health in the pandemic. How ironic it would be if football were allowed to happen but it couldn't happen because the very ones who complained didn't see fit to step up to become officials.
Translation- in true Boomer fashion- I don't give a shit about any other generation. You should all rearrange your entire lives and futures to pacify us. ME! ME! ME!

PS- I'm pretty dang close to that 50.

Interesting.  Seems to me that the young whippersnappers telling all us old folks to simply watch out for ourselves while they do whatever the eff they want in the pandemic is a pretty selfish thing.  The problem with the "You do you, I'll do me" attitude in a pandemic is how you do you impacts how I have to do me.

Have you looked at the U.S. daily new cases curve versus that of most European countries?  They have successfully plateaued their daily new cases numbers WAY down in comparison to the U.S.  Ours are plateauing at a far higher number and actually going up in recent days.  Why?  Because they had the balls to stick it out and we didn't.  Because of selfish people who don't give a shit about older people, or at-risk people, or people who live in big cities, or people who live anywhere other than their little corner of nirvana.  Because of people who got tired of social distancing so they just stopped.  Because of people who rebel against state and local restrictions and take a don't tread on me.  Because of people who don't want to wear a mask because they don't want to endure the minor inconvenience or discomfort.
Talk about selfish!
Please spare me the "I care more!" bullshit. You don't give a \"f\"ing about me or anyone else on this board. If I died tomorrow, you wouldn't know, nor would you give a shit. Please stop trying to repeatedly play the moral high card..

All lives matter, HI. Even yours.
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Post by ramblinman on Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:57 pm

OSUBucks wrote:Good post Dusty and I hope everything works out ok with your dad. If I had to guess I'd say for Illinois HS football this year our chances are about 60/40 against. We live in the bluest state in this part of the country and I think the blue states are more likely to shutdown over this than the red ones.  Some folks think that if one life can be saved by canceling football you should do it. Athletics do a lot of good for the thousands of athletes who participate every year so I'm not in the camp that would cancel the season for one life. You have to do what's best for the most people IMO.
As far as college football goes football is the primary revenue source that funds other sports programs. Some non Division 1 schools have already canceled some sports at their schools. If there is any way to have even a shortened season they are going to want to do it. If the NCAA pulls the plug on football it's not going to go over well. I won't be surprised if the P5 football conferences break with the NCAA in the next 5 years anyway. If they pull the plug on football that could very well increase the likelihood of that happening.
The media is using statistics to deceive the public on how bad the Pandemic is right now. They keep saying that there's a big spike in the US. When counting the number of states with spikes they are including states like Idaho, Montana and Wyoming which still have very low case numbers. There are a handful of Southern states that are having big increases now but overall there are fewer Covid19 deaths in the country now than a month ago.

If football is allowed, I'm thinking it won't complete more than half a season. Nationally, we are not bending the curve of new daily cases. It has plateaued at best and is starting back up at worst. The virus is out there and is not going away. The season will be cut short for one or more of a myriad of reasons, including:

1. Schools shut down again and return to distance learning.
2. Too many players or coaches become infected with the virus.
3. Not enough officials.
4. The IHSA will realize the season is a sham because of all the forfeits, and it will shut down the season for everyone, even schools in those rural areas where nobody seems to ever get infected.
5. The IHSA will bow to pressure from member schools, ISBE, and IDPH to shut down the season due to a spike in infections among players and coaches and officials.
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Post by Head Idiot on Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:10 pm

ramblinman wrote:

All lives matter, HI.  Even yours.
Phase 4 = high school football? - Page 2 Giphy10
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Post by ramblinman on Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:27 am

dusty7 wrote:Ok Ramblin calm down a little bit.  Their curves are flatter partially because they are small countries (geographically) and the US is more spread out.

Their curves aren't just flatter.  They have pretty much bottomed out and flattened.  Our national curve flattened, went down somewhat, and now it has plateaued.  I think it's more a case of those countries having a plan, executing it, and sticking to it.  They didn't relax as cases were going up or had begun to flatten.  Instead, they rode the downward slope of the curve for a while until they relaxed their restrictions.  

dusty7 wrote:Let's get this straight right now, we all want to see a football season and I do not think anyone on this board wants to see those older people get sick and potentially die.  We have all been impacted by this negatively and obviously this isn't going to go away, probably ever, so many of us believe that it is time to move on and see what happens, we need to learn to live with the disease like we have many times in our history.  As you and I have debated, the experts have been incorrect before and many people have lost faith in the predictions and many believe it is time to get some normalcy back to our lives and school and HS sports can provide that normalcy, especially for teenagers, who desperately need it.  

As long as we are getting things straight, let's get straight that you stating that nobody on this board wants to see older people get sick and potentially die is stating the obvious.  Neither I, nor anyone else here, have ever suggested that posters arguing your side of the coin want to see older people get sick and die.   BTW, you sound like Trump when you say "many people" have said this or that.  

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Well, guess what?  Many people have contracted the virus.  Many people have died from the virus.  Many more will get sick, and many more will die because of the many hasty and impatient people who have pressured our local governments to open up too soon.  

dusty7 wrote:But please don't ever assume that us younger people are okay with the older people dying, that is the generation of our parents,  I don't wish anything ill on your generation and it sucks that the older generation is more impacted by this disease, but that is the way it is.  

I never assumed that at all.  

dusty7 wrote:One group wants to move on and the other doesn't, and we need to accept the fact statistics show who is impacted by this disease and teenagers can most likely go out, compete, and there will be very little negative impact on their individual lives.  Just as you are thinking the younger generation should sacrifice for the older generation, the younger generation believes the older generation should sacrifice something for the younger generation as well.  The door swings both ways.

The issue is that "many" teenagers who are allowed to compete will become infected and pass it on to their coaches, the officials, their teachers, counselors, bus drivers, school janitors, their parents, grandparents, etc.  As for the older generation sacrificing something for the younger generation, we have been doing that all along and for decades.  First of all, let's remember that there wouldn't be a younger generation at all if it weren't for an older generation.  Older folks have been sacrificing for DECADES to help produce and raise the younger generation.  Now, when it comes time for the younger generation to sacrifice for a few months, the older generation is told that the door swings both ways and that we now have to sacrifice and put our lives and health at further risk so that the younger generation can compete in a sport?  What a crock of crap.
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Post by dusty7 on Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:10 pm

ramblinman wrote:
The issue is that "many" teenagers who are allowed to compete will become infected and pass it on to their coaches, the officials, their teachers, counselors, bus drivers, school janitors, their parents, grandparents, etc.  As for the older generation sacrificing something for the younger generation, we have been doing that all along and for decades.  First of all, let's remember that there wouldn't be a younger generation at all if it weren't for an older generation.  Older folks have been sacrificing for DECADES to help produce and raise the younger generation.  Now, when it comes time for the younger generation to sacrifice for a few months, the older generation is told that the door swings both ways and that we now have to sacrifice and put our lives and health at further risk so that the younger generation can compete in a sport?  What a crock of crap.

Exactly what are the sacrifices your generation made?    By the way, great job informing that without an older generation there would not be a younger generation, just like, without lamps, there'd be no light, mindblowing.  I also want to thank you for helping raise me and my fellow Gen X's, Gen Z's, and even the Millenials, I do not know what we would do without your generations sacrifice to have kids and take on the responsibility to raise those children.

The younger generation is not sacrificing for a few months, they are sacrificing their entire lives.  When kids are not in school, they are not learning.  Sports allows many students an avenue to attend college at a reduced rate and without the ability to train and compete, they lose out on these valuable opportunities.  All levels of students are falling behind and the losses will most likely never be recovered.  The sacrifices the children have made goes way beyond not being able to participate in sports.  I challenge you to take the time to actually talk to these kids and see how they are really feeling, they want to be in school, they are worried about how the lack of school will impact their future and their ability to earn gainful employment or an opportunity for college.  That "few month" sacrifice will eventually turn in to a life-long sacrifice that will cause them to suffer long after you are gone.

For those who do not want to risk their health, stay home, don't officiate, take a leave of absence, don't drive a bus, don't go see your grandparents.  These are all choices that people make.  As for bus drivers and janitors, without school or sports, these individuals will not have jobs so they will not have any income and would probably much rather work and wear a mask than not work at all.  If they are not working, our taxes pay their wage, so in a sense, we are all making a sacrifice to help them survive.  

Everybody (see now I don't sound like Trump) understands the risks involved with schools opening and allowing sports to be played and should numbers spike, our hospitals have the capacity to help those in need.  Stats show positive tests are increasing but deaths and hospitalizations continue to decline.  The average age of infection is also dropping (35 I think), which has a +99% survival rate.  We have to learn to live with this disease, it is never going to go away.
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Post by 19delta on Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:54 pm

ramblinman wrote:First of all, let's remember that there wouldn't be a younger generation at all if it weren't for an older generation.  Older folks have been sacrificing for DECADES to help produce and raise the younger generation.  Now, when it comes time for the younger generation to sacrifice for a few months, the older generation is told that the door swings both ways and that we now have to sacrifice and put our lives and health at further risk so that the younger generation can compete in a sport?  What a crock of crap.

Now I know you are a troll.

Your generation is the reason this country is so fvcked up. You sucked the life out of this country and then pulled the ladder up after you crawled into your ivory tower. Of course, that was after you wiped out the turnip harvest for the rest of us.
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Post by OldTitan on Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:48 pm

BACK ON TOPIC:

Given what came out of the Governor's Office today about Phase IV:
Youth and Recreational Sports: Revised guidelines allow competitive gameplay and tournaments; youth and recreational sports venues can operate at 50% of facility capacity, 20% seating capacity for spectators, and group sizes up to 50 with multiple groups permitted during practice and competitive games given venues have space to appropriately social distance and can limit interaction between groups; concessions permitted with restrictions.

It seems like a very positive chance of football this fall!

I know there are still some questions - but my hopes are up.
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Post by ging on Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:53 pm

OldTitan wrote:BACK ON TOPIC:

Given what came out of the Governor's Office today about Phase IV:
Youth and Recreational Sports: Revised guidelines allow competitive gameplay and tournaments; youth and recreational sports venues can operate at 50% of facility capacity, 20% seating capacity for spectators, and group sizes up to 50 with multiple groups permitted during practice and competitive games given venues have space to appropriately social distance and can limit interaction between groups; concessions permitted with restrictions.

It seems like a very positive chance of football this fall!

I know there are still some questions - but my hopes are up.

man, that sure sounds positive for return to football, etc. i have to believe the IDPH signed off on the governor's plan.
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Post by center on Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:45 pm

I think we are playing football and having at least some form of in-person schooling this fall.

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Post by ramblinman on Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:08 am

dusty7 wrote:
Exactly what are the sacrifices your generation made?

I don't know if you are a parent or not. If you are, you will know the sacrifices. If you aren't, then you might think you know, but if you have to ask, then you probably won't know until you become a parent. I can only speak for myself and what I did for my kids, and what I am doing for my grandchild. And, I'm not going to get into specifics other than to say that I put three kids through private school and college.

dusty7 wrote:The younger generation is not sacrificing for a few months, they are sacrificing their entire lives.  When kids are not in school, they are not learning.  Sports allows many students an avenue to attend college at a reduced rate and without the ability to train and compete, they lose out on these valuable opportunities.  All levels of students are falling behind and the losses will most likely never be recovered.  The sacrifices the children have made goes way beyond not being able to participate in sports.  I challenge you to take the time to actually talk to these kids and see how they are really feeling, they want to be in school, they are worried about how the lack of school will impact their future and their ability to earn gainful employment or an opportunity for college.  That "few month" sacrifice will eventually turn in to a life-long sacrifice that will cause them to suffer long after you are gone.

I thought we were just talking about a return to football here in this thread. I agree that kids need to be in school. But if you really want to talk about ENTIRE LIVES being sacrificed, then let's remember the lives of those whose people who are dying right now because of self absorbed people who don't social distance, who don't want to wear a mask, and who are fighting this pandemic by taking every opportunity to convince themselves and others that this is overblown hype, or that it is a hoax, or that this is nothing more than a bad flu bug, or that we are testing too many people and it makes the confirmed cases numbers look bad.

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Post by newcom on Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:24 pm

Are any more people dying this year vs previous years? This is the stat I really want to know.
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Post by dusty7 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:33 pm

ramblinman wrote:
I don't know if you are a parent or not.  If you are, you will know the sacrifices.  If you aren't, then you might think you know, but if you have to ask, then you probably won't know until you become a parent.  I can only speak for myself and what I did for my kids, and what I am doing for my grandchild.  And, I'm not going to get into specifics other than to say that I put three kids through private school and college.
 

Actually I am a father of a 3 year old and expecting another boy in September. As for calling what I do for my family a sacrifice...I see it more as a responsibility. I have a responsibility to provide a quality of life for my children and to help get them through school and college. I don't have don't enough money to send them to a private school and they will maybe have to get loans if they choose to go to college, but I guess that is my fault for not sacrificing enough like you.

It is not a sacrifice to raise children, it is a responsibility, that is just my perspective. I am sure you will find something wrong with it.

So raising kids, that is 1 sacrifice, what sacrifices did your great generation make?

ramblinman wrote:I thought we were just talking about a return to football here in this thread.  I agree that kids need to be in school.  But if you really want to talk about ENTIRE LIVES being sacrificed, then let's remember the lives of those whose people who are dying right now because of self absorbed people who don't social distance, who don't want to wear a mask, and who are fighting this pandemic by taking every opportunity to convince themselves and others that this is overblown hype, or that it is a hoax, or that this is nothing more than a bad flu bug, or that we are testing too many people and it makes the confirmed cases numbers look bad
 

Well, according to the CDC, 80% of individuals who get COVID will experience mild to no symptoms, so I will agree that for MOST people, 80% it is nothing more than a bad flu bug. The number of positive cases continues to rise, but deaths and hospitalizations continue to drop according to the CDC. Younger people are now being infected more than the elderly and we are not seeing a strain on the health care system even though the numbers are increasing.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

I believe that most areas of the state will play most if not an entire season. Playoffs maybe won't happen but hopefully they will. The entire state is not Chicago and Chicago and suburbs will probably be the first to start canceling school and games but the southern areas could probably progress through an entire season. I see at least 5-6 games being played but hopefully more.





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Post by dusty7 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:58 pm

Excess Death Stats

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

You can change the data at the bottom. A few weeks the excess Death was pretty bad but most weeks are about normal.
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Post by Head Idiot on Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:05 pm

newcom wrote:Are any more people dying this year vs previous years?  This is the stat I really want to know.
IIRC, I saw an article that says overall, deaths are lower because people aren't out and about.
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Post by dusty7 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:13 pm

Interesting BBC article on how to approach living with COVID, even mentions it being a "nasty flu."

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52543692?__twitter_impression=true
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Post by OldTitan on Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm

This sounds like trouble for football Sad
IHSA could play some fall sports, but not all
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Post by OSUBucks on Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:36 pm

OldTitan wrote:This sounds like trouble for football Sad
IHSA could play some fall sports, but not all

I agree OT. It's all about the social distancing. I am acquainted with a guy in Texas who is pretty clued in down there and was told today that what he's hearing is that they are considering having their football season in the Spring. Of course the virus is a lot worse in Texas right now than it is here. Who knows, it's possible that we might see a spike here in a few weeks as we've only been in Phase 4 several days. I've had a feeling the last couple of days that they would nix HS football and it seems pretty likely after reading that article. I saw just the other day that the NCAA has extended the recruiting dead period thru August. I think College football is pretty much up in the air right now too. It's going to be strange this Fall if there's no HS or College football.
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Post by lefty120 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:33 am

I think tennis, golf, cross country, and volleyball play this fall. Soccer and football do not. As painful as it would be to miss the season, I want nothing to do with moving it to the spring. You’d then be looking at back to back seasons in essence. Heck, at this point, not knowing what the fall and school starting up will bring, I’m even going to say basketball is 50/50 this winter without some sort of advancement in treatment or a vaccine.

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Post by lefty120 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:34 am

My gut tells me the nfl will play, some how...may not be a typical season and there won’t be fans for most of it, but they’ll find a way.

College, if it goes, won’t happen until October and that’s only if numbers on campus’s stay under control.

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Post by dusty7 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:24 pm


Saw this posted on Edgy

Our young athletes need us to step up and make phone calls.

I have it on good authority that the IHSA needs parents to speak up. If you have a high school athlete, it’s time to put the pressure on the IDPH to get Stage 2 Return to Play guidelines approved. Call the Office of the Director at IDPH and start asking questions. PLEASE be respectful! 217-557-2556
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