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Joe Biden Innocent or Guilty

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Post by lefty120 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:54 am

I agree with your statement about how the Dems would have reacted 100%. Both sides are equally guilty of attempting to spin whatever happens in their favor damn what’s best for the country. Like I said, neither side is any good and there’s plenty of cannon fodder to go around.

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Post by Head Idiot on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:10 am

lefty120 wrote:I just saw something on the AP wire this morning that said Trump was involved in a meeting where it was discussed back in 2019. Maybe it is fake news. Honestly, I really don’t give a shit anymore. Wouldn’t surprise me if the Dems planted or fueled the story somehow to continue momentum. As a social studies teacher I feel horrible saying this, but I’m not voting for either one of them. They’re both pieces of shit. Trump is a racist power hungry narcissist and Biden has his enough of his own luggage that there’s no way anyone from the right will even try to work with him. The leadership in our country right now is a lost cause. And that’s for both sides of the aisle.
For my money, it's not a vote for the person, it's a vote for the ideology.

There is nothing in the Democrat agenda for me, or my family. In fact, as their policies and attention are concerned, I do not exist. A Democratic presidency will do nothing but cost me money. In fact, some Dem candidates have went as far to say my wife and I's incomes put us in the wealthy "elites". That's without getting into the hard socialist turn the party is making. I won't even begin to comment on the issues I have with their societal, environmental and religious stances other than to say I don't agree in any way shape or form.

I am under no false pretense that Republicans give any more of a crap than Dems do about me, but nothing in their agenda hurts me. In fact, it actually helps. And they may not practice it, but they actually talk about personal freedoms. Dems act as if freedoms are something to be squashed.

So, I find myself firmly in the basket of deplorables this election. I think Trump is a hugely flawed candidate, but so is Biden. In fact, the Dems have managed to nominate a man who is just as short in many of the same categories they mock Trump for.

PS- I did not vote for either candidate in 2016.
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Post by lefty120 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:25 am

Fair enough.

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Post by Head Idiot on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:40 am

I find it ironic that in every facet of our society we're told to do what's best for us and our family, but when you apply that to your vote you're a racist, sexist, bigoted asshole.

(Not implying you or anyone here would say that lefty)
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Post by lefty120 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:54 pm

Understood. And I’d agree. To many people look at your vote as an all or nothing principle...you vote for Biden, you’re totally against anything else, and vice verse. Unfortunately, it’s the way of the world we live in. Many people don’t believe that you can actually identify with both parties, both good and bad.

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Post by BirdWatcher on Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:47 pm

Head Idiot wrote:
lefty120 wrote: As a social studies teacher I feel horrible saying this, but I’m not voting for either one of them. They’re both pieces of shit. Trump is a racist power hungry narcissist and Biden has his enough of his own luggage that there’s no way anyone from the right will even try to work with him. The leadership in our country right now is a lost cause. And that’s for both sides of the aisle.

For my money, it's not a vote for the person, it's a vote for the ideology.


For my money, it's about the money.

I made as much 401k money in three years of Trump as I did in 8 years of Obama. Since I live on a fixed income and am too young to draw Social Security as yet, my 401k draws are pretty important.

Yes, Trump is an asshat. And a liar. Name a President that wasn't.

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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:28 pm

Head Idiot wrote: Yes! PLEASE can we go back to 12% unemployment being the "new normal"?
Obama wrote:  What is a danger is that we stay stuck in a new normal where unemployment rates stay high. People who have jobs see their incomes go up. Businesses make big profits, but they?ve learned to do more with less. And so they don?t hire. And, as a consequence, we keep on seeing growth that is just too slow to bring back the eight million jobs that were lost. That is a danger.  

Here is what happened to unemployment during the Obama administration:

Joe Biden Innocent or Guilty - Page 2 Unempl11



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Post by OSUBucks on Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:30 pm

In February of this year the unemployment rate was 3.5%, then we got hit with COVID19.
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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:32 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:For my money, it's about the money.

I made as much 401k money in three years of Trump as I did in 8 years of Obama.  Since I live on a fixed income and am too young to draw Social Security as yet,  my 401k draws are pretty important.


Here is the stock market performance by president:

Joe Biden Innocent or Guilty - Page 2 Stock-10

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Post by OSUBucks on Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:45 pm

From Reagan to Trump. How W got a second term is puzzling. Possibly the worst President of my lifetime.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/business/stock-market-by-president/index.html
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Post by BirdWatcher on Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:15 pm

Teetime wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:For my money, it's about the money.

I made as much 401k money in three years of Trump as I did in 8 years of Obama.  Since I live on a fixed income and am too young to draw Social Security as yet,  my 401k draws are pretty important.

Here is the stock market performance by president:


And, I still made as much money from 2016 until COVID as I did from 2008 til 2016.

Pretty easy to show "growth" when you're starting from the depths of a recession. Much tougher to show "growth" when you've (sorta) recovered already....

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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:And, I still made as much money from 2016 until COVID as I did from 2008 til 2016.

Pretty easy to show "growth" when you're starting from the depths of a recession.  Much tougher to show "growth" when you've (sorta) recovered already....


That is possible if you are talking dollars of growth. On Obama's eight year watch the market was up between 150% and 180%. On the Trump watch (pre-covid) it was up 55% to 60%. That is not how a market professional would measure growth (i mean in dollars rather than percentages).

If your 401(k) was $800,000 at the end of 2007 (after the crash) then it would have grown to about $2,080,000 under Obama. Then during the first three years of Trump's term it would have grown to $3,328,000 so in dollars the Obama growth would have been $1,280,000 and the Trump growth was $1,248,000. Of course the market is down some since the virus roiled the markets, so less today that early March.

If Obama had been as crappy with the economy as the Trumpsters like to lie about, your Obama growth would have been much less, and your Trump growth would have been much, much less because you wouldn't have had $2 Million dollars in the market when Trump took over.


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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:32 pm

BirdWatcher wrote:Rick Grennell, Acting DNI during the "alleged" briefing said no briefing of Trump occurred #FakeNews


Sure. Let's see what he says under oath.

The press secretary was much more careful on how she worded that "non-briefing". She said he was not "briefed personally" or words to that effect. That the information was in his daily briefing to be read, but that he couldn't be bothered to read it is still a possibility the way she wordsmithed it.

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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm

Head Idiot wrote:There is nothing in the Democrat agenda for me, or my family. In fact, as their policies and attention are concerned, I do not exist.


President Trump was asked about his agenda in term two on a FOX news Town Hall last Thursday. See if you can find something in his agenda for you and your family...

" But presented the chance Thursday -- host Sean Hannity asked Trump to name his "top priority items for a second term" -- Trump became distracted with old grievances and never ultimately named a single goal.

"One of the things that will be really great -- the word experience is still good, I always say talent is more important than experience, I've always said that -- but the word experience is a very important word, a very important meaning," Trump said.

The President noted that in his life as a New York developer he rarely visited Washington, and didn't know many of the city's players.
"Now I know everybody," he said. "And I have great people in the administration. You make some mistakes, like an idiot like (former national security adviser John) Bolton, all he wanted to do was drop bombs on everybody, you don't have to drop bombs on everybody, you don't have to kill people."

From there, Trump launched into an extended attack on Bolton, never returning to the theme of his second term. Later, Hannity again raised the notion of a second term, only to have Trump respond with criticism of the "planeloads of cash" that alleged were sent to Iran by the Obama administration."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So there is the Trump agenda for term two.

Here is what the Wall Street Journal editorial board thought of the Trump agenda:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wall Street Journal editorial board in a Thursday night op-ed slammed President Trump for not articulating a clear vision for a second term, with the 130-year-old publication warning the incumbent of defeat in November and taking the Republican majority in the Senate with him.

"President Trump may soon need a new nickname for 'Sleepy Joe' Biden. How does President-elect sound?" the board wrote. "On present trend that’s exactly what Mr. Biden will be on Nov. 4, as Mr. Trump heads for what could be an historic repudiation that would take the Republican Senate down with him."

"Mr. Trump refuses to acknowledge what every poll now says is true: His approval rating has fallen to the 40 percent or below that is George H.W. Bush and Jimmy Carter territory," it continues.


The board specifically broached two key issues that have emerged in the past four months that have resulted in falling numbers for the president: the coronavirus pandemic and the police killing of George Floyd that has resulted in nationwide protests and unrest in the country.

"Now the election is four months away, voters know him very well, and Mr. Trump has reverted to his worst form," the board notes. "His record fighting the coronavirus is better than his critics claim after a bad start in late February and March. He mobilized federal resources to help hard-hit states, especially New York."

"But he wasted his chance to show leadership by turning his daily pandemic pressers into brawls with the bear-baiting press and any politician who didn’t praise him to the skies," it added. "Lately he has all but given up even talking about the pandemic when he might offer realism and hope about the road ahead even as the country reopens. His default now is defensive self-congratulation."

After arguing that the president can still define the election through school choice and being the right candidate to lead on the post-pandemic economy, the board surmised Trump will have let down all who voted for him in 2016.

"Perhaps Mr. Trump lacks the self-awareness and discipline to make this case. He may be so thrown off by his falling polls that he simply can’t do it," it concludes. "If that’s true he should understand that he is headed for a defeat that will reward all of those who schemed against him in 2016. Worse, he will have let down the 63 million Americans who sent him to the White House by losing, of all people, to 'Sleepy Joe.'"


Last edited by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:01 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:51 pm

Head Idiot wrote:
lefty120 wrote:The situation with him apparently knowing back in 2019 about Russia paying bounties to the Taliban for American soldiers lives is getting more and more interesting.
My question is this- if he did know, what action should he have taken?


There was an NSC staff meeting to develop the various alternative responses that would be proper after finding out that a foreign government was paying rebels to assassinate American soldiers. Those would have been recommended to the President if anyone could find their gonads long enough to present them to the boss.

Are you saying that you can't think of an appropriate punishment and therefore there should be none?


Last edited by Teetime on Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:41 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Head Idiot on Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:11 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote: Yes! PLEASE can we go back to 12% unemployment being the "new normal"?
Obama wrote:  What is a danger is that we stay stuck in a new normal where unemployment rates stay high. People who have jobs see their incomes go up. Businesses make big profits, but they?ve learned to do more with less. And so they don?t hire. And, as a consequence, we keep on seeing growth that is just too slow to bring back the eight million jobs that were lost. That is a danger.  

Here is what happened to unemployment during the Obama administration:

Joe Biden Innocent or Guilty - Page 2 Unempl11


Those are the words from his mouth on 60 Minutes.
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Post by OSUBucks on Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:14 pm

I'm not debating your point that Trump isn't a capable President. What would you do to Russia if you were President? Based on what I know about history a land invasion isn't a good idea. Smile
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Post by Head Idiot on Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:30 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:
lefty120 wrote:The situation with him apparently knowing back in 2019 about Russia paying bounties to the Taliban for American soldiers lives is getting more and more interesting.
My question is this- if he did know, what action should he have taken?


There was an NSA staff meeting to develop the various alternative responses that would be proper after finding out that a foreign government was paying rebels to assassinate American soldiers. Those would have been recommended to the President in anyone could find their gonads long enough to present them to the boss.

Are you saying that you can't think of an appropriate punishment and therefore there should be none?
Idk that there's anything outside military action to be taken. We've pretty much already ran the gammit of economic sanctions.

And, let's not act like this doesn't happen to our interests every day. Why's it a big deal now? Because it involves Trump and Russia. I would wager this isn't even a story if a D is president.
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Post by Head Idiot on Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:38 pm

Teetime wrote:
So there is the Trump agenda for term two.

Trump could do nothing for 4 more years than Tweet idiotic crap and that will be less damaging to me than a Democratic president.
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Post by BirdWatcher on Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:43 pm

Teetime wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:And, I still made as much money from 2016 until COVID as I did from 2008 til 2016.

Pretty easy to show "growth" when you're starting from the depths of a recession.  Much tougher to show "growth" when you've (sorta) recovered already....

That is possible if you are talking dollars of growth.

In round numbers I had a million before the Clinton Recession of 2008.  It fell to a half million.  Of course, this was all potential, I wasn't selling, just plopping my usual amount in yearly.  So it took from 2009 to 2014 to "get back" the half million I "lost."  Then it just kinda idled for two years.

Trump came in and my million became a million and a half.

So, yeah, I made as much money in 3 years of Trump as 8 years of Obama.   I've got another half mil sitting on the sidelines (not in the market) that I'll put in if Trump wins in November.  If Biden wins, forget it.

TDS'ers will say Obama "doubled my money" and Trump's growth was only 50%. As I said, it's easier when you're starting from the bottom: My pay QUADRUPLED from 1982 to 1983. Did I have a phenomenal 19983? Or was 1982 just a shitty year. 1982 was a shitty year. I made $2375.


Last edited by BirdWatcher on Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by tps on Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:50 pm

Teetime wrote:
BirdWatcher wrote:Rick Grennell, Acting DNI during the "alleged" briefing said no briefing of Trump occurred  #FakeNews


Sure. Let's see what he says under oath.

The press secretary was much more careful on how she worded that "non-briefing". She said he was not "briefed personally" or words to that effect. That the information was in his daily briefing to be read, but that he couldn't be bothered to read it is still a possibility the way she wordsmithed it.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-never-briefed-russian-bounty-unvetted-intel-because-nsa-strongly-dissented

low level leak=fake news

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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:38 pm

Head Idiot wrote:Idk that there's anything outside military action to be taken. We've pretty much already ran the gammit of economic sanctions.

And, let's not act like this doesn't happen to our interests every day. Why's it a big deal now? Because it involves Trump and Russia. I would wager this isn't even a story if a D is president.

You don’t have to know what the options presented to the president would be....but they would be presented. The question is...what would our president do with those options.

Of course this doesn’t happen every day. When we have a real president there is a huge price to pay when American soldiers are murdered for hire. It usually is the case that nobody would try that for fear of the repercussions.

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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:44 pm



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Post by OSUBucks on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:46 pm

After Russia invaded the Crimea did Obama take forceful action that you'd like to see Trump take?
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Post by Teetime on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:59 pm

OSUBucks wrote:After Russia invaded the Crimea did Obama take forceful action that you'd like to see Trump take?

No.

Remind me, how many American soldiers were murdered in that invasion?

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