"Last Dance"

Pretty Good so far!
Krause is a Douche put Pippen is kinda of a baby. Sign a contract stick to it dumbass!

newcom wrote:Pretty Good so far!  
Krause is a Douche put Pippen is kinda of a baby.  Sign a contract stick to it dumbass!

It was good last night. I'm planning on watching all 10 episodes. If MJ's father hadn't been murdered I don't think that he would ever have attempted that foray into baseball which kept him away from the NBA for nearly 2 years and I'm convinced that the Bulls would have won 8 titles in a row. Still the greatest dynasty in the modern era.
I believe next Sunday they are going to delve into Rodman's trip to Las Vegas.

OSUBucks wrote:If MJ hadn't been suspended for gambling I don't think that he would ever have attempted that foray into baseball which kept him away from the NBA for nearly 2 years and I'm convinced that the Bulls would have won 8 titles in a row.

Fixed it for you.

Head Idiot wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:If MJ hadn't been suspended for gambling I don't think that he would ever have attempted that foray into baseball which kept him away from the NBA for nearly 2 years and I'm convinced that the Bulls would have won 8 titles in a row.

Fixed it for you.

There's nothing to that rumor.

OSUBucks wrote:

Head Idiot wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:If MJ hadn't been suspended for gambling I don't think that he would ever have attempted that foray into baseball which kept him away from the NBA for nearly 2 years and I'm convinced that the Bulls would have won 8 titles in a row.

Fixed it for you.

There's nothing to that rumor.

How about the one on why his dad got killed?

PS- I'm being sarcastic. Sorta..

I honestly had never heard that perhaps Jordan's retirement was actually a gambling suspension. I must have been living under a rock because plenty comes up when you google it.

Great show, though! It's already one of the best sports documentaries I've seen and we're 20% of the way into it!

newcom wrote:Pretty Good so far!  
Krause is a Douche put Pippen is kinda of a baby.  Sign a contract stick to it dumbass!

Just for the sake of argument, if the teams don't have to honor the contracts, why should the players? This is a pro sports in general question, not just the NBA.

wolverine55 wrote:

newcom wrote:Pretty Good so far!  
Krause is a Douche put Pippen is kinda of a baby.  Sign a contract stick to it dumbass!

Just for the sake of argument, if the teams don't have to honor the contracts, why should the players?  This is a pro sports in general question, not just the NBA.

The teams do have to honor the contracts, at least in the NBA and in MLB. I'm pretty sure that virtually all the money that players sign for in those leagues is guaranteed money. The NFL is the outlier in that players almost never collect the full value of a contract because the only "guaranteed" money is the signing bonus. I think that if an NFL team cuts a player under contract prior to a certain date, the team is no longer on the hook for that player's salary for the season and does not have that player's salary count against the cap.

The deal that Pippen signed actually wasn't too bad for the first couple years but he clearly left a lot of money on the table. Here's a good explanation of it.

wolverine55 wrote:I honestly had never heard that perhaps Jordan's retirement was actually a gambling suspension.  I must have been living under a rock because plenty comes up when you google it.

what i am about to tell you is 100% factual.

a good friend of mine got married in the summer of 1994. he and his wife went on their honeymoon and on the flight back, they happened to be seated next to craig hodges, who was a teammate of jordan's in the early 90's and at that time had been hired as the head coach at chicago state. in the summer of 1994, jordan was playing minor league baseball in birmingham. my friend talked to hodges about jordan's foray into minor league baseball. hodges told my buddy that jordan made a deal with the nba to leave the league for an agreed length of time, in lieu of an official suspension, because of his ongoing gambling "issues".

my buddy told me about this conversation with hodges shortly after their return from their honeymoon. so sometime in late summer of 1994. i doubted that jordan would be back and figured hodges was just bullshitting (and he may have been).

anyway, fast forward to mid-march of 1995, jordan announced his return to the nba.

we'll never know whether or not hodges knew something concrete or was just guessing. but it's interesting that it played out the way it did.

That would be a Great Cover Up if it is true

ging wrote:

wolverine55 wrote:I honestly had never heard that perhaps Jordan's retirement was actually a gambling suspension.  I must have been living under a rock because plenty comes up when you google it.

what i am about to tell you is 100% factual.

a good friend of mine got married in the summer of 1994.  he and his wife went on their honeymoon and on the flight back, they happened to be seated next to craig hodges, who was a teammate of jordan's in the early 90's and at that time had been hired as the head coach at chicago state.  in the summer of 1994, jordan was playing minor league baseball in birmingham. my friend talked to hodges about jordan's foray into minor league baseball.  hodges told my buddy that jordan made a deal with the nba to leave the league for an agreed length of time, in lieu of an official suspension, because of his ongoing gambling "issues".

my buddy told me about this conversation with hodges shortly after their return from their honeymoon. so sometime in late summer of 1994.  i doubted that jordan would be back and figured hodges was just bullshitting (and he may have been).

anyway, fast forward to mid-march of 1995, jordan announced his return to the nba.

we'll never know whether or not hodges knew something concrete or was just guessing.  but it's interesting that it played out the way it did.

That is very interesting. I will say I've always found the timing of his return a little odd. And, without the strong social media presence back then, probably a little easier to keep things a secret.

Interesting. I thought the story about Jordan's unofficial gambling suspension was pretty much common knowledge. It's been alluded to many times over the past 25 years on WSCR and other Chicago sports media outlets. There are conspiracy theories about the murder of Jordan's father, as well.

agreed.

but at THAT time (when my buddy told me about the conversation with hodges), it was not as widely known.

19delta wrote:Interesting. I thought the story about Jordan's unofficial gambling suspension was pretty much common knowledge. It's been alluded to many times over the past 25 years on WSCR and other Chicago sports media outlets. There are conspiracy theories about the murder of Jordan's father, as well.

I had always heard the rumors/theories about Jordan's father's death. It has been a while; maybe I had heard stuff about it really being a suspension and forgot over the years.

I believe in UFO's but I don't believe that Stern suspended MJ. When Stern died a few months ago MJ was gushing about how great a commissioner he was. If Stern did suspend Jordan MJ never held a grudge to say the least.

OSUBucks wrote:I believe in UFO's but I don't believe that Stern suspended MJ. When Stern died a few months ago MJ was gushing about how great a commissioner he was. If Stern did suspend Jordan MJ never held a grudge to say the least.

Why would MJ hold a grudge against Stern? If Stern did in fact unofficially suspend Jordan, he did him a huge favor, especially if Jordan was gambling on games. If Jordan were to come out now and say negative things about Stern, that would only result in the gambling allegations to be rehashed. Jordan is a smart guy. He knows when to let sleeping dogs lie.

19delta wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:I believe in UFO's but I don't believe that Stern suspended MJ. When Stern died a few months ago MJ was gushing about how great a commissioner he was. If Stern did suspend Jordan MJ never held a grudge to say the least.

Why would MJ hold a grudge against Stern? If Stern did in fact unofficially suspend Jordan, he did him a huge favor, especially if Jordan was gambling on games. If Jordan were to come out now and say negative things about Stern, that would only result in the gambling allegations to be rehashed. Jordan is a smart guy. He knows when to let sleeping dogs lie.

So I guess you actually believe the rumor. That's fine you are entitled to your opinion. If true it's one of the best kept secrets in history.

OSUBucks wrote:

19delta wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:I believe in UFO's but I don't believe that Stern suspended MJ. When Stern died a few months ago MJ was gushing about how great a commissioner he was. If Stern did suspend Jordan MJ never held a grudge to say the least.

Why would MJ hold a grudge against Stern? If Stern did in fact unofficially suspend Jordan, he did him a huge favor, especially if Jordan was gambling on games. If Jordan were to come out now and say negative things about Stern, that would only result in the gambling allegations to be rehashed. Jordan is a smart guy. He knows when to let sleeping dogs lie.

So I guess you actually believe the rumor. That's fine you are entitled to your opinion. If true it's one of the best kept secrets in history.

Eh, I really don't care enough about basketball to really believe it or disbelieve it. But, if Jordan and Stern were the only who ones who knew about the agreement, it is certainly plausible. Stern is dead and Jordan definitely isn't talking.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good rumor.

They go into a lot of depth on the rumors surrounding Jordan's father's murder and the talk of Jordan's retirement being a suspension on tonight's episode.

David Stern totally debunks the theory that Jordan was suspended for gambling.

OSUBucks wrote:David Stern totally debunks the theory that Jordan was suspended for gambling.

I don't remember who said it, but perhaps the biggest piece of "evidence" was when someone referred to Stern as the "ultimate capitalist" so why would he suspend his biggest money maker?

wolverine55 wrote:

OSUBucks wrote:David Stern totally debunks the theory that Jordan was suspended for gambling.

I don't remember who said it, but perhaps the biggest piece of "evidence" was when someone referred to Stern as the "ultimate capitalist" so why would he suspend his biggest money maker?

Exactly. Larry O'Brien and David Stern were probably the two best Commissioners in NBA history.

Last 5 minutes of Ep. 7 were amazing. Great TV. Hearing Jordan talk about why he is the way he is was compelling.

Definitely. Based on the previews, this was the night I was least interested in because I don't care a whole lot about Jordan's baseball pursuit or Space Jam. But, it probably ended up being the most intriguing night.