Coronavirus

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Post by OSUBucks on Tue May 19, 2020 9:26 pm

I don't know what channels you watch but they must not be the ones I'm watching.  I saw stories every day for about a week about ailments children were having that were suspected to be caused by Covid-19. Child deaths from this are rare but NBC was milking that for all they were worth. I watch the news regularly and I see very little about nursing homes. I'll bet I watch more news than you do.
I hope the economy opens in Illinois soon. Don't be surprised if JBP finds a reason to delay it though. Restaurants in Illinois won't be fully opened until late June at the earliest. I don't know what you've been reading that might indicate otherwise. Democrat controlled states have been more reluctant to open quickly than GOP controlled states. That is fact. Where are all the casualties in Georgia and Florida predicted by the Democrats anyway?
BTW, Ohio, which has a population similar to Illinois has 1724 deaths, Illinois has 4379.
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Post by 19delta on Tue May 19, 2020 9:35 pm

Teetime wrote:
19delta wrote:Massachusetts - 87,000 cases
New York - 361,000 cases
Pennsylvania - 66,500 cases
Maryland - 41,500 cases
Washington, DC - 7,400 cases

Total cases in these states- 563,000+. Cities in and around these states, including Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington, DC, (BosWash) make up about 15% of the population of the United States yet account for more than 33% of the total number of US Covid-19 cases.

Tremendous mathematical anomaly, indeed! Laughing

No, that’s not it either. All of those six other countries that are in the top seven in cases have large metropolitan areas that were also hard hit. Those cities have public transportation and represent similarly large percentages of the total population of their countries.

For example just two hard hit cities in Russia comprise 11.3% of the total population, in Spain two cities with the most cases make up 20.3% of total population. In Brazil the four cities with the greatest number of cases account for 22% of all Brazilians. London had the most cases in the UK and it alone makes up 12.5% of the citizenry.

So I think you pointed out a distinction without a difference.

No, something else is the cause of the USA having such an inordinately high number of cases as compared to the rest of the world....what could that be?

I've given you about 3 rational answers. So now why don't you give me yours?

Let me guess...it's Trump, right? Rolling Eyes

And while you are at it, why don't you also give me an answer for why more than a third of US coronavirus cases are coming from about 5 states?
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Post by OSUBucks on Tue May 19, 2020 10:23 pm

Against my better judgement I turned on CNN. First thing I saw was an attack on Trump which is what I figured. That was followed by an experiment conducted in a restaurant showing how easily germs are spread. Now they are arguing against opening the economy. Smile
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Post by Head Idiot on Wed May 20, 2020 12:25 am

Teetime wrote:Hell, it seems like every other news story mentions those two....who, along with prisons comprise a huge percentage of the deaths from the virus.


Bull crap.

There's been 373 deaths from COVID in prisons throughout the country. 12 in Illinois.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/05/01/a-state-by-state-look-at-coronavirus-in-prisons
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Post by net on Wed May 20, 2020 9:22 am

Head Idiot wrote:Where is Pritzker? I mean, physically.

i can tell you where's not.......

1. weight watchers.
2. jenny craig.
3. in his hyatt gyms.
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Post by 19delta on Wed May 20, 2020 9:34 am

net wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:Where is Pritzker? I mean, physically.

i can tell you where's not.......

1. weight watchers.
2. jenny craig.
3. in his hyatt gyms.

https://khqa.com/news/local/pritzker-family-travel-to-wisconsin-during-stay-at-home-order

He's been up at his farm in Wisconsin. You know...forking out the barn, mending fences, stacking hay in the mow...you know...farmer stuff!

Rolling Eyes
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Post by Teetime on Wed May 20, 2020 9:39 am

OSUBucks wrote: BTW, Ohio, which has a population similar to Illinois has 1724 deaths, Illinois has 4379.


That seems unusual also, really a mathematical anomaly you might say.

What do you attribute that difference to? Honestly....I want to know.

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Post by Head Idiot on Wed May 20, 2020 9:46 am

19delta wrote:
net wrote:
Head Idiot wrote:Where is Pritzker? I mean, physically.

i can tell you where's not.......

1. weight watchers.
2. jenny craig.
3. in his hyatt gyms.

https://khqa.com/news/local/pritzker-family-travel-to-wisconsin-during-stay-at-home-order

He's been up at his farm in Wisconsin. You know...forking out the barn, mending fences, stacking hay in the mow...you know...farmer stuff!

Rolling Eyes  
I'm sure that child of privilege is knee deep in horse manure doing all that work...

The deafening silence on this is amazing. Can you imagine the media if Trump went golfing at Mar A Lago right now?
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Post by Head Idiot on Wed May 20, 2020 9:55 am

From someone else-
Imagine a man who forced his wife to stay away from her friends, family, and job.
Imagine he also told her she should not leave the house unless absolutely necessary, and to cover her face and avoid people if she does go out.
Imagine he threatened her with punishment if she didn't submit.
Would you call this abusive?

It does not stop being abuse when the
government does it. - anonymous
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Post by 19delta on Wed May 20, 2020 10:08 am

Well, well, well...

So it seems that it isn't just the deplorable clinger superstitious hillbilly conspiracy theorists who aren't happy with Pritzker:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/naperville-park-district-will-sue-to-reopen-more-quickly/2274659/
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Post by Teetime on Wed May 20, 2020 10:10 am

19delta wrote:And while you are at it, why don't you also give me an answer for why more than a third of US coronavirus cases are coming from about 5 states?


I don't have answers, just guesses. I don't know shit about viruses or how they spread, or why one region or one country has way way more than logic would dictate.

It seems like there are answers that go with the questions, but I don't know them.

I have a theory (a guess really) that the states that have been heavily affected so far are the ones that had international travelers in January and February (from Europe, China and elsewhere) and that they brought the virus to those states and then community spread happened. Then, In the states that are at the top of the case list, there is a system of public transportation that is widely used and is the main culprit in promoting community spread. Again, I'm guessing.

I think that is why California, which had cases early, is not at the top of the case list in spite of being so heavily populated. No widely used public transportation system.

I also guess that when the Covid-19 disease is defeated the community spread will have mostly evened out these differences by city, state and country.

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Post by Head Idiot on Wed May 20, 2020 10:14 am

Teetime wrote:
19delta wrote:And while you are at it, why don't you also give me an answer for why more than a third of US coronavirus cases are coming from about 5 states?


I don't have answers, just guesses. I don't know shit about viruses or how they spread, or why one region or one country has way way more than logic would dictate.

It seems like there are answers that go with the questions, but I don't know them.

I have a theory (a guess really) that the states that have been heavily affected so far are the ones that had international travelers in January and February (from Europe, China and elsewhere) and that they brought the virus to those states and then community spread happened. Then, In the states that are at the top of the case list, there is a system of public transportation that is widely used and is the main culprit in promoting community spread. Again, I'm guessing.

I think that is why California, which had cases early, is not at the top of the case list in spite of being so heavily populated. No widely used public transportation system.  

I also guess that when the Covid-19 disease is defeated the community spread will have mostly evened out these differences by city, state and country.
If it came to Illinois in Jan and Feb, why did it take 1-2 months to start getting people sick?

PS- I think it was here then, and people did get sick then. Such as my wife. As I posted earlier, and some thought I was crazy.
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Post by Head Idiot on Wed May 20, 2020 10:16 am

19delta wrote:Well, well, well...

So it seems that it isn't just the deplorable clinger superstitious hillbilly conspiracy theorists who aren't happy with Pritzker:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/naperville-park-district-will-sue-to-reopen-more-quickly/2274659/
That's funny, I just read this that basically says the Decatur police aren't going to enforce anything COVID related because the State's Attorney says all of it is illegal. Our mayor is DEEP up JB's ass too.

https://herald-review.com/news/local/public_safety/legally-enforceable-or-not-the-shifting-legal-landscape-of-covid-19-restrictions/article_518a48aa-7cc6-5c30-9d49-c27b8cbeca51.html#tracking-source=home-top-story
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Post by Teetime on Wed May 20, 2020 10:47 am

Head Idiot wrote:If it came to Illinois in Jan and Feb, why did it take 1-2 months to start getting people sick?

PS- I think it was here then, and people did get sick then. Such as my wife. As I posted earlier, and some thought I was crazy.


I don't think it took 1-2 months for people to get sick. It just took that long to multiply. One day it was one guy, three days later it was five, three days later it was twenty five and on and on.

At the highest levels of government we (Americans) knew it was coming. In the medical profession, they were put on notice about what to look for, then we as a group became aware of the potential problem and BOOM....it was here. We thought the first community spread happened out west after they unloaded one of those cruise liners but I think already had a thousand cases in New Rochelle, NY and maybe more in New York City.

Contrary to popular belief, I have never met your wife. If she loves you, or even likes you a little, I would diagnose her as "bat shit crazy" and we all know that the virus starts with bat shit.

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Post by ramblinman on Wed May 20, 2020 2:48 pm

Today and yesterday witnessed the third and fourth highest daily death totals in Illinois since this thing began.

But, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!  The great and powerful open upper has spoken! We're back!

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Post by 19delta on Wed May 20, 2020 2:51 pm

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Post by OSUBucks on Wed May 20, 2020 3:00 pm

ramblinman wrote:Today and yesterday witnessed the third and fourth highest daily death totals in Illinois since this thing began.

But, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!  The great and powerful open upper has spoken!  We're back!

Coronavirus  - Page 39 A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-curtain


And those that died were probably exposed to the virus close to 2 weeks ago. The new cases are still lower than they were a couple weeks ago. But just keep on with your negative view on all this.
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Post by OSUBucks on Wed May 20, 2020 3:04 pm


He also announced some changes to Phase 3. He is going to allow limited size groups to be seated outdoors at restaurants and bars. Smile A man of the people! Laughing
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Post by ramblinman on Wed May 20, 2020 4:03 pm

OSUBucks wrote:And those that died were probably exposed to the virus close to 2 weeks ago. The new cases are still lower than they were a couple weeks ago. But just keep on with your negative view on all this.

2388 new cases today, 2270 new cases two weeks ago on 5/6, 2122 on 5/5, and 2341 on 5/4. You were saying?

But, regardless if the new cases are truly going down, they are still ridiculously high relative to what they were when we went into lockdown mode to begin with. So, somehow, the needle of acceptability has moved from a true handful of new cases per day to thousands of new cases per day as to when it is reasonable to be out and about and infecting others and being infected.

It's times like these when I like to ask how many is too many. How many new daily cases in Illinois would it take to get you to change your tune? 5,000? 10,000? You do realize, of course, that there are countless thousands of additional people getting this virus who are not having it confirmed by a test?
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Post by 19delta on Wed May 20, 2020 4:21 pm

ramblinman wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:And those that died were probably exposed to the virus close to 2 weeks ago. The new cases are still lower than they were a couple weeks ago. But just keep on with your negative view on all this.

2388 new cases today, 2270 new cases two weeks ago on 5/6, 2122 on 5/5, and 2341 on 5/4.  You were saying?

But, regardless if the new cases are truly going down, they are still ridiculously high relative to what they were when we went into lockdown mode to begin with.  So, somehow, the needle of acceptability has moved from a true handful of new cases per day to thousands of new cases per day as to when it is reasonable to be out and about and infecting others and being infected.

It's times like these when I like to ask how many is too many.  How many new daily cases in Illinois would it take to get you to change your tune?   5,000?  10,000?  You do realize, of course, that there are countless thousands of additional people getting this virus who are not having it confirmed by a test?

But aren't we testing more people today than we were testing two weeks ago?
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Post by ramblinman on Wed May 20, 2020 4:30 pm

19delta wrote:
ramblinman wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:And those that died were probably exposed to the virus close to 2 weeks ago. The new cases are still lower than they were a couple weeks ago. But just keep on with your negative view on all this.

2388 new cases today, 2270 new cases two weeks ago on 5/6, 2122 on 5/5, and 2341 on 5/4.  You were saying?

But, regardless if the new cases are truly going down, they are still ridiculously high relative to what they were when we went into lockdown mode to begin with.  So, somehow, the needle of acceptability has moved from a true handful of new cases per day to thousands of new cases per day as to when it is reasonable to be out and about and infecting others and being infected.

It's times like these when I like to ask how many is too many.  How many new daily cases in Illinois would it take to get you to change your tune?   5,000?  10,000?  You do realize, of course, that there are countless thousands of additional people getting this virus who are not having it confirmed by a test?

But aren't we testing more people today than we were testing two weeks ago?

2-3,000 more roughly.  But, all that means is that we are confirming more cases, not that the actual number of cases is on the rise or decline.  Given that so many can be asymptomatic, and given how testing took so damn long to ramp up, there are likely millions of people who have or have ad this virus than those who have been confirmed.  Any way you want to look at it, the number of daily confirmed cases is outrageous in comparison to how many there were when we thought it was appropriate to shut things down.
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Post by 19delta on Wed May 20, 2020 4:40 pm

ramblinman wrote:
19delta wrote:
ramblinman wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:And those that died were probably exposed to the virus close to 2 weeks ago. The new cases are still lower than they were a couple weeks ago. But just keep on with your negative view on all this.

2388 new cases today, 2270 new cases two weeks ago on 5/6, 2122 on 5/5, and 2341 on 5/4.  You were saying?

But, regardless if the new cases are truly going down, they are still ridiculously high relative to what they were when we went into lockdown mode to begin with.  So, somehow, the needle of acceptability has moved from a true handful of new cases per day to thousands of new cases per day as to when it is reasonable to be out and about and infecting others and being infected.

It's times like these when I like to ask how many is too many.  How many new daily cases in Illinois would it take to get you to change your tune?   5,000?  10,000?  You do realize, of course, that there are countless thousands of additional people getting this virus who are not having it confirmed by a test?

But aren't we testing more people today than we were testing two weeks ago?

2-3,000 more roughly.  But, all that means is that we are confirming more cases, not that the actual number of cases is on the rise or decline.  Given that so many can be asymptomatic, and given how testing took so damn long to ramp up, there are likely millions of people who have or have ad this virus than those who have been confirmed.  Any way you want to look at it, the number of daily confirmed cases is outrageous in comparison to how many there were when we thought it was appropriate to shut things down.

Huh?

If the number of positive cases has only gone up a little but the number of tests has gone up a lot, that means we are getting ahead of it.

And if there truly are these millions of untested but infected people, where are they? They certainly aren't being admitted to hospitals. Are there secret mass graves somewhere?
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Post by ramblinman on Wed May 20, 2020 5:33 pm

19delta wrote:

Huh?

If the number of positive cases has only gone up a little but the number of tests has gone up a lot, that means we are getting ahead of it.

And if there truly are these millions of untested but infected people, where are they? They certainly aren't being admitted to hospitals. Are there secret mass graves somewhere?

Really?  You don't get it?  I'll try to type slowly here.

We don't really know if we are getting ahead of it or not when the number of tests vary as much as they do and when the number of tests being performed is so low relative to the total population.  Everyone is touting the positivity rate, which I feel is a crock of crap.  Here is why:  If you test 50,000 people in one day and you have a positivity rate of 10%, that's 5,000 daily confirmed cases, but at least the positivity rate went down, right?  This might seem a bit off the charts in terms of relativity to the current situation....but is it really?  

Last week, we had a day with, by far, the most daily tests (29,266) and daily confirmed cases (4,014).  Do the math.  You think 29,266 is a lot of daily tests?  Not too far down the road, I think we will look back at 29,000 daily tests and chuckle that we thought that was a lot.  More tests will be more confirmed cases.  Millions more.

Where are the millions of untested and infected people?  Everywhere.  First of all, many of them have had the virus and have survived, your secret mass graves wisecrack notwithstanding.  Secondly, there are already 1.6 million confirmed cases in this country.  There are people on this board who think they or there family members had it.  Public health officials are pretty much in agreement that there are many untested actual cases of the virus out there.  I have read that the actual number of cases could be between 10 and 20 times the number of confirmed cases.

The millions who are infected and contagious and untested are at your local Casey's.  They are on public buses.  They are in tattoo parlors and bowling alleys in Georgia.  They are anywhere they want to be in Wisconsin.  In August, if many of you have your way, they will be lining up inches away from each other across a line of scrimmage.   They will be gathering thisclose to each other in a huddle.  In just 11 days, they will be gathering in groups of up to ten anywhere they want in our state.  

The more we open up, the more chances you will be exposed to them.  You can have this virus and be decades away from a grave, secret mass or otherwise.  You can feel completely fine, and still be contagious.  That's the reason you should be wearing a mask when out in public interacting with others, so you mitigate the risk of infecting them.
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Post by dusty7 on Wed May 20, 2020 5:40 pm

If you look at 7 day averages, which are a much better measurement than day to day numbers, have flat lined for about 16 days, this according to USA Today.

Overall numbers are starting to trend down across the state and our health care system is no where, nor has it been, overwhelmed by this virus. That is attributed to the stay at home order, which did have a positive impact, but states that have relaxed those ordera still have not seen a sharp increase in numbers.

This will never go away and there are some proven therapies that are working for the most severe of cases. A positive test is definitely not a death sentence for a majority of the population, but those who are vulnerable need to keep their guard up.
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Post by OSUBucks on Wed May 20, 2020 6:39 pm

dusty7 wrote:If you look at 7 day averages, which are a much better measurement than day to day numbers, have flat lined for about 16 days, this according to USA Today.  

Overall numbers are starting to trend down across the state and our health care system is no where, nor has it been, overwhelmed by this virus.  That is attributed to the stay at home order, which did have a positive impact, but states that have relaxed those ordera still have not seen a sharp increase in numbers.  

This will never go away and there are some proven therapies that are working for the most severe of cases.  A positive test is definitely not a death sentence for a majority of the population, but those who are vulnerable need to keep their guard up.  

This is correct. When things open up if I had a preexisting condition and was considered high risk I would not be going to a restaurant, even eating outside. If I was Pritzker I may not open up Region 1 (Cook County) on the 29th but I'd open up every where else. The quarantine units in the two Springfield hospitals are mostly empty. We've had very little death here in our County with the exception of one nursing home that didn't follow the proper protocols. I agree with RM in that when going out have your mask on. A week or two ago we were having some days with between 3000-4000 new cases so we are flattening out and most of the new cases and fatalities continue to be in the NE corner of the state. I hear some folks saying that when a vaccine is available they aren't getting it. When vaccines are available get vaccinated.
If we end up with around 140,000 fatalities when this is over that would be about 0.0004% of our population. Not anything like the Black Death in 14th century Europe when about a third of the population was killed. If we had done a better job protecting our elderly in nursing homes it would have even been a lot less.
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