Should it count as an American record?

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Should it count as an American record?

Post by tincup1215 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:18 pm

Mondo Duplantis, the 18 year old pole vault sensation made 6.05m (19'10.25" in American measurement) at the European Championships over the weekend. Mondo was born and raised in Louisiana, but competes for Sweden. He holds dual citizenship between the US and Sweden.

According to the rules, this counts as breaking Brad Walker's American pole vault record of 6.04m.

I ask here since a vast majority of you are not the hardcore Track nerds with blinded passion who are commenting on this on everything I've been reading.
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by ging on Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:44 pm

where does he currently live?
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by tincup1215 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:48 pm

ging wrote:where does he currently live?

Louisiana.

The rule for a National record states:

An American Record, which shall be the best performance by an American citizen in an athletic's event held within the United States or abroad.

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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by tm on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:01 pm

He seems to meet the rules, so why wouldn't it be a record?

Also, why would the rule say "within the United States or abroad"? Where else is there?
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by OldTitan on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:17 pm

I would count it. I understand why the U.S. track folks would not want to.
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by Head Idiot on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:26 pm

If he lives here and is eligible to be on the Olympic team, count it.
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by Teetime on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:48 pm

Sweden is not even a shithole country.

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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by tincup1215 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:46 pm

Head Idiot wrote:If he lives here and is eligible to be on the Olympic team, count it.

Born and raised here, but competes for Sweden and won't compete for the US.

He did this at the European Championships, which is only open to European competitors. How can an American record be set at a meet that doesn't allow American competitors?
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by tm on Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:21 pm

I'm not a track guy, so no idea about it pissing off the track people. However, if the only rule for counting it is what you posted earlier, it should count as the record. Might by sketchy, but he complies with the requirements of the rule.
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by Teetime on Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:27 pm

tm wrote:He seems to meet the rules, so why wouldn't it be a record?

Also, why would the rule say "within the United States or abroad"? Where else is there?

I believe Neil Armstrong would have set both a high jump and a long jump AR and WR on the surface of the moon. He would have just had to organize a meet with Buzz Aldrin.

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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by tincup1215 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:44 pm

tm wrote:I'm not a track guy, so no idea about it pissing off the track people. However, if the only rule for counting it is what you posted earlier, it should count as the record. Might by sketchy, but he complies with the requirements of the rule.

Correct! The rule was brought up to the USATF back in December by Jeff Hartwig (former vaulter).

From a report:

Jeff Hartwig (in rule committee meeting) noticed the rule was flawed. Verbatim: ”Imagine Mondo jumping 6.05m in a Swiss jersey at European champs where Americans aren’t allowed to compete - breaking the AR.”

Their response: “What are the chances of that?”
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by 19delta on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:28 pm

He has an awesome name. He should get the record based on that alone.
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by crusader on Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:10 pm

Yes it should count.

And ...
https://youtu.be/SKRma7PDW10
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by general maximus on Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:50 pm

Yes.

Just like Trump is your president, even if you don't like it.

We have a similar weird situation here because of our Co-op with Chrisman. Their athletes still have Chrisman track records and a record board down there with just their names on it. Last year a girl from there ran 59.88 in the 400. That time broke the record for them, but did not set our record here because a Gtown girl has that beat still.

Also last year we set the Gtown Mile relay record, but Chrisman would not put the record up because one of the girls was not from Chrisman.

So Chrisman recognizes their girls on their board but not ours.


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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by Chukam All on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:15 pm

I'm a "hardcore Track nerd" but I don't think I have "blinded passion". Can I comment?

1. USATF wrote the rule. They were warned the rule was "flawed". They have no legitimate reason to not ratify the jump as an American Record at their December meeting. At least if you're defining "should" as within the letter of the law.

2. If you're defining "should" as in is it right to allow someone in another country's uniform to have "our" record... I guess this is where the blinded passion comes in.

I've always been a letter of the rules kind of guy. Give Mondo his record. It's not like he renounced his U.S. citizenship or something. He simply elected to represent another country. A country his mother and brother both represented in their day. A country that picks their representatives by different rules than USATF does. And, I assume, supports them better. There have been many U.S. born and raised athletes who have chosen to represent other countries who offer much more support. This is USATF's fault. You can't treat athletes like hired help, and offer less than a pittance, and then cry when they opt for a better way.
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

Post by Chukam All on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:29 pm

Now for the Paul Harvey part to the story.  

Word is that this rule will be rewritten by USATF in December.  Something along the lines that you give up your right to claim a U.S. record if you're representing another country.  We will have to wait and see how they "fix" it.  
HOWEVER, they can't make it retroactive.  So hypothetically, in a couple of years we could see Mondo holding the U.S. record as an American and the World and Swedish records as a Swede. But his hypothetical World Record would not be a U.S. record.
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Re: Should it count as an American record?

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