Da Bears...

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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:50 pm

OldTitan wrote:Honestly, I thought Fox had a solid staff. I think we all realize, coaching is not the problem with the Bears.
Agreed.  Just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic at this point.

Oh well.  The fans seem happy so that ought to buy the ownership another couple years to line their pockets.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:58 pm

dusty7 wrote:Helfrich and Hiestand are great hires.  Makes the Nagy decision look that much better.  I like where they are going at this point.

If Trubisky ends up being decent, the Nagy hire could be similar to what happened when Pittsburgh hired Mike Tomlin in 2007. Prior to becoming the Steelers' head coach, Tomlin had only been a defensive coordinator for one year and had only been an NFL coach for 7 years total. He was only 34 years old when he got the job.

But, in hindsight, Tomlin was hired into a great situation. The Steelers were just two years removed from a Super Bowl championship and they had a HOF DC and good QB already in place. Tomlin has been good for Pittsburgh, no doubt. But he also came into a really good situation.

I hope that Nagy soon finds himself in a similar situation, at least in regards to the defense and the QB. If the Bears are able to keep Fangio, the defense should be in pretty good hands. Fangio could effectively be the "Head Coach" of the defense. That would let Nagy focus most of his attention on developing Trubisky and the offense.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:35 pm

Maybe I'm just out of touch to the how the hierarchy of the NFL works, but why hire a guy and say he's going to be the primary play caller and work with you QB and then hire an OC? Especially a guy who hasn't coached a single second in the League?
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:49 am

The Chicago Bears might finally have a 21st century offense.
These are the sort of fan comments that really get to me.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by dusty7 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 pm

OldTitan wrote:Honestly, I thought Fox had a solid staff. I think we all realize, coaching is not the problem with the Bears.

Exactly.  I heard and interview with Urlacher and he was upset that they let Fox go.  His response was, "Players have to make plays."  But I think Fox knew what is role was and was somewhat a fall guy for the franchise.  I think his best years are behind him but maybe he gets a coordinator job somewhere next year but he has had a solid coaching career.

When it comes to the draft, to me it doesn't make sense to go out and get a top WR in your first pick.  Very rarely do those top picks end up panning out and if you look at the NFL, 1st Round WR's are almost never on Super Bowl teams.  It's the 2nd and 3rd Rounders that end up on successful teams.  

Games are won in the trenches and they still need plenty of help on the OLine and DLine.  Use the first pick and get a linemen, 1st round linemen tend to be  more successful than skill positions. Turbisky doesn't need studs to be a successful QB. He needs time in the pocket or designed roll outs based on Play Action. Get the run game shored up and the passing game will come later. It's basic football 101.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:23 pm

The only problem I had with Fox was he really seemed to stop giving any craps about halfway through this season. But, maybe that was because he knew he was gone.

How many years in a row have we talked about on here how the Bears need to value the O and DLine more?
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:38 pm

I think the Bears are like the Cubs/Blackhawks in that no real change or success will occur without a change in ownership.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by newcom on Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:25 pm

Amen to that! they will never win another championship under the McCaskey's
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:26 pm

dusty7 wrote:
OldTitan wrote:Honestly, I thought Fox had a solid staff. I think we all realize, coaching is not the problem with the Bears.

Exactly.  I heard and interview with Urlacher and he was upset that they let Fox go.  His response was, "Players have to make plays."  But I think Fox knew what is role was and was somewhat a fall guy for the franchise.  I think his best years are behind him but maybe he gets a coordinator job somewhere next year but he has had a solid coaching career.

When it comes to the draft, to me it doesn't make sense to go out and get a top WR in your first pick.  Very rarely do those top picks end up panning out and if you look at the NFL, 1st Round WR's are almost never on Super Bowl teams.  It's the 2nd and 3rd Rounders that end up on successful teams.  

Games are won in the trenches and they still need plenty of help on the OLine and DLine.  Use the first pick and get a linemen, 1st round linemen tend to be  more successful than skill positions.  Turbisky doesn't need studs to be a successful QB.  He needs time in the pocket or designed roll outs based on Play Action.  Get the run game shored up and the passing game will come later.   It's basic football 101.  

I think Ryan Pace has drafted pretty good. Leonard Floyd, Jordan Howard, Eddie Goldman, Eddie Jackson, Adrian Amos, Cody Whitehair, and Tarik Cohen have all been pretty good. Adam Shaheen, Mitch Trubisky, Nick Kwiatkoski, and Jonathon Bullard have all shown some flashes of being credible NFL players.

Even his free agent signings haven't been awful. Akiem Hicks, Danny Trevathan, Josh Sitton, Mitch Unrein, and Bobbie Massie have all been pretty good for the Bears. He's signed some bad ones, for sure (Glennon and Wheaton top that list). But Pace seems to be a guy who can identify legitimate NFL talent.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Bighitter11 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:49 pm

Pace's Free Agent Signings last year were pretty awful....

QBs Sanchez & Glennon
TE Dion Sims
WR Wright, Wheaton......Not resigning Jeffery and Banking on Kevin White
DBs Demps, Cooper.........Prince played well 1 of 3 not bad
K Connor Barth
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:53 pm

I don’t know if this is true, but one thing I read said they tried resigning Jeffrey, for even more money than the Eagles, but he just wanted out.  If true, there’s not a lot you can do.

Glennon was terrible.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:58 pm

Bighitter11 wrote:Pace's Free Agent Signings last year were pretty awful....

QBs Sanchez & Glennon
TE Dion Sims
WR Wright, Wheaton......Not resigning Jeffery and Banking on Kevin White
DBs Demps, Cooper.........Prince played well 1 of 3 not bad
K Connor Barth

Free agency is always going to be a crapshoot. I said in my previous post that he signed some bad ones.

Sanchez is NOT a bad free agent signing. It was a one-year deal. $2 million tops. Just money. Same with Barth and Wright. Glennon, Wheaton, Sims, and some of those other guys who got multi-year deals...bad signings, to be sure. But I already said that.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Bighitter11 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:08 pm

But they are bad signings if they dont contribute or arent part of the long term plans. You want to aquire and stockpile talent and depth so your not spending the next offseason trying to fill the same holes. They 100% struck out in Free Agency at the skill positions I dont see any of them being around long or being a part of the offense going forward. You hit on even 1 WR and thats 1 less spot your looking to fill thus closing the gap from where you can go to from pretender to contender.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Bighitter11 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:09 pm

Kyle Fuller - Try and Resign or Let Go?
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:13 pm

Bighitter11 wrote:Kyle Fuller - Try and Resign or Let Go?

Do they have a viable replacement? If they let Fuller go, they run the risk of repeating the Alshon Jeffrey non-signing.

With that being said, I am always suspicious of a guy who has a pretty under-the-radar career but then elevates his level of play in the final year of a contract.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:14 pm

Bighitter11 wrote:But they are bad signings if they dont contribute or arent part of the long term plans.  You want to aquire and stockpile talent and depth so your not spending the next offseason trying to fill the same holes.  They 100% struck out in Free Agency at the skill positions I dont see any of them being around long or being a part of the offense going forward.  You hit on even 1 WR and thats 1 less spot your looking to fill thus closing the gap from where you can go to from pretender to contender.

That is the nature of free agency. That's why you need to draft well. Which Pace seems to be capable of doing.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Bighitter11 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:19 pm

19delta wrote:
Bighitter11 wrote:Kyle Fuller - Try and Resign or Let Go?

Do they have a viable replacement? If they let Fuller go, they run the risk of repeating the Alshon Jeffrey non-signing.

With that being said, I am always suspicious of a guy who has a pretty under-the-radar career but then elevates his level of play in the final year of a contract.

Always worry about that guy on the Contract year but he started his career off well then looked lost for a few years. Maybe he goes as the rest of the defense goes. I think as long as he isnt asking for Lockdown Money you try and bring him back.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by wolverine55 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:32 pm

Fangio agreed to a three year deal to come back earlier today.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:12 pm

19delta wrote:
Head Skin wrote:I think the media’s drooling over the hiring of a Qb coach is disturbing.  I mean, there’s a whole bunch of other positions on the field this guy has to worry about.

In fact one photo caption said something along the lines of “The only relationship that matters” on the Bears with Nagy and Tribusky pictured.  They’re still going to have to do a whole bunch of other stuff.  Trestman was hell of a Qb coach for Rich Gannon too.

That photo caption is spot-on, and probably 95% accurate. In the NFL, the position that matters exponentially more than all other positions IS the QB. There are WAY more good NFL coaches than there are good NFL quarterbacks.

If Trubisky can at least reach an Andy Daltonesque level of competency, Nagy will do fine. That's because having an above average NFL QB automatically elevates the play of everyone else. Hell...look what happened in Green Bay this year after Rogers got hurt for proof of that. What about John Fox? In 2014, he was a highly-esteemed NFL coach who had led two different franchises to the Super Bowl and was 30 games over .500 during a 13-year head coaching career. 4 years later, he gets run out of town. In both those cases (and in countless more) the head coach either lost a great QB or never had one in the first place.

That's why I don't think that Nagy's experience or lack thereof matters that much. If he can help Trubisky develop into an above average NFL QB, then that will automatically make everything else he needs to do easier and better. On the other hand, if Trubisky doesn't develop or is just bad, the Bears will struggle and Nagy will get fired in 3 or 4 years.

I think that this phenomenon is specific to the NFL only. College football and high school football are far less QB centric. But the NFL is all about the QB. So that's why I don't think Nagy is a terrible hire (or is not any better or any worse than whomever the other candidates were).

Case Keenam, Nick Foles, and Blake Bortles.

Shows that I obviously don't know what I'm talking about! Very Happy
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:40 pm

We might be entering a Moneyball type of moment in the NFL where GM's realize that maybe the QB position is WAY overvalued.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:33 pm

Something I have wondered over the past couple years is why NFL teams draft college spread QBs but then try and make them traditional under-center NFL pocket QBs. That has never made any sense to me at all.

I'm sure there is a good reason for it. I just don't know what it is. I would think that if a team spends a high draft pick and tens of millions of dollars on a quarterback that they would implement an offense that was particularly suited to that QB's skill set. But, it is apparently the other way around. The QB has to adapt his skills to the NFL's offense. Which is, IMO, backasswards.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:44 pm

Maybe because the average spread playbook will get their QB killed in a year or two?

Not to mention the speed factor and preparation factor of an average NFL defense is hard to out formation. And there's the whole part of they're not playing New Mexico State.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:02 pm

If anything, current NFL rules that are so highly protective of the QB position should actually encourage greater offensive innovation.

I'm not talking about running Utah's offense from 2004. Marcus Mariotta was a spread QB in college and he averaged almost 30 pass attempts per game. That is pretty much in line with what an NFL QB is going to do every week. As for preparation...this is the NFL. These guys are professional football players. There is no school. No tests to study for. No papers to write. All they need to do is play football. If anything, it should be easier to prepare for an NFL game than it is for a college game.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by Head Idiot on Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:17 pm

Which is why a defense has the upper hand preparation wise in the NFL. A lot of the stuff colleges get away with in taking advantage of defenses would be negated in the league.
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Re: Da Bears...

Post by 19delta on Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:36 am

Head Skin wrote:Which is why a defense has the upper hand preparation wise in the NFL.  A lot of the stuff colleges get away with in taking advantage of defenses would be negated in the league.

Did you just argue that the defense has the upper hand in the NFL? The AVERAGE scoring per game in the NFL is a little over 3 TDS a game. 21+ points a game. And that includes the shitty teams like the Browns and Bears.

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