Interesting Read...

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Interesting Read...

Post by Horsefeather on Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:17 am

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-chicago-schools-enrollment-decline-20171129-story.html

Found this yesterday. I think it's fascinating story about the impact of school choice. I also wonder how the district can afford to keep this many schools operating at such a low capacity open. Yes, I know the CPS is a dumpster fire in many ways, but this boggled my mind to a degree.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by ramblinman on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:11 pm

Thanks for sharing that article.  It was a good read.  Interesting and telling that the CPS and its top staff leadership declined to be interviewed for the story.

While I feel badly for the students in those schools with fewer academic and extra-curricular options, there's a big part of me that feels good that the market is deciding the future of underperforming and unpopular schools.

Private schools have long competed in the student marketplace among themselves and among public schools.  This makes them nimble and forces them to be competitive and to adapt to changing realities.  Those that don't have closed their doors. If I were a parent living in a community that had just one public school, with no other private schools within a reasonable distance to choose from, I would be concerned about there being no competition to help make my community's public school better and more responsive to market demands.

What is baffling to me is the artificial support created by the five-year moratorium of CPS school closings.  Enrollments of 250 in buildings that can accommodate 2,000? No other language offerings beyond Spanish I and II?  Physics not offered?  Stop the madness!  At what point have we passed the point of being ridiculous?  If the market keeps deciding to send fewer and fewer kids to a specific school, just close the damn school when it gets down to below X% of capacity.  Stop throwing good money after bad.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by Teetime on Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:45 pm

I don’t remember the CPS system being upset at rural schools having to consolidate and bus kids to the town 15 miles away.

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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by Head Skin on Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:50 pm

ramblinman wrote:No other language offerings beyond Spanish I and II?  Physics not offered?  
I don't have a point to make or anything else, just sharing this fact- the past 3 schools I have worked at haven't offered a foreign language other than Spanish. Clinton, CG or Sullivan. CG and Sullivan did offer past II, but I can't remember about Clinton. I would assume they did. Clinton used to offer French when I was in school. I think it was dropped when the teacher retired.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by ramblinman on Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:45 pm

Head Skin wrote:
ramblinman wrote:No other language offerings beyond Spanish I and II?  Physics not offered?  
I don't have a point to make or anything else, just sharing this fact- the past 3 schools I have worked at haven't offered a foreign language other than Spanish.  Clinton, CG or Sullivan.  CG and Sullivan did offer past II, but I can't remember about Clinton.  I would assume they did.  Clinton used to offer French when I was in school.  I think it was dropped when the teacher retired.

I can understand a smaller school offering a single foreign language. I cannot understand not offering it beyond Foreign Language II.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by Horsefeather on Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:15 am

Morris offers Spanish as our only Foreign Language. We offer through Spanish 4. We used to offer French & German as well, but as those teachers retired, they disappeared from the curriculum.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by OldTitan on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:40 am

Foreign language outside of Spanish is one of the hardest positions to fill.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by 19delta on Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:58 am

ramblinman wrote:Thanks for sharing that article.  It was a good read.  Interesting and telling that the CPS and its top staff leadership declined to be interviewed for the story.

While I feel badly for the students in those schools with fewer academic and extra-curricular options, there's a big part of me that feels good that the market is deciding the future of underperforming and unpopular schools.

Private schools have long competed in the student marketplace among themselves and among public schools.  This makes them nimble and forces them to be competitive and to adapt to changing realities.  Those that don't have closed their doors.  If I were a parent living in a community that had just one public school, with no other private schools within a reasonable distance to choose from, I would be concerned about there being no competition to help make my community's public school better and more responsive to market demands.

What is baffling to me is the artificial support created by the five-year moratorium of CPS school closings.  Enrollments of 250 in buildings that can accommodate 2,000?  No other language offerings beyond Spanish I and II?  Physics not offered?  Stop the madness!  At what point have we passed the point of being ridiculous?  If the market keeps deciding to send fewer and fewer kids to a specific school, just close the damn school when it gets down to below X% of capacity.  Stop throwing good money after bad.

I agree with everything you have posted here.

My main thought as I read the article was that it was terrific that parents who previously had to send their children to dangerous and failing schools now had much better choices. My biggest question was about the families who keep their children in these struggling schools. Why, given all these alternatives, would ANYONE willingly send their children to a school like Tilden when there are so many other options?
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by net on Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:47 am

beardstown still offers english.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by ramblinman on Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:58 am

19delta wrote:
ramblinman wrote:Thanks for sharing that article.  It was a good read.  Interesting and telling that the CPS and its top staff leadership declined to be interviewed for the story.

While I feel badly for the students in those schools with fewer academic and extra-curricular options, there's a big part of me that feels good that the market is deciding the future of underperforming and unpopular schools.

Private schools have long competed in the student marketplace among themselves and among public schools.  This makes them nimble and forces them to be competitive and to adapt to changing realities.  Those that don't have closed their doors.  If I were a parent living in a community that had just one public school, with no other private schools within a reasonable distance to choose from, I would be concerned about there being no competition to help make my community's public school better and more responsive to market demands.

What is baffling to me is the artificial support created by the five-year moratorium of CPS school closings.  Enrollments of 250 in buildings that can accommodate 2,000?  No other language offerings beyond Spanish I and II?  Physics not offered?  Stop the madness!  At what point have we passed the point of being ridiculous?  If the market keeps deciding to send fewer and fewer kids to a specific school, just close the damn school when it gets down to below X% of capacity.  Stop throwing good money after bad.

I agree with everything you have posted here.

My main thought as I read the article was that it was terrific that parents who previously had to send their children to dangerous and failing schools now had much better choices. My biggest question was about the families who keep their children in these struggling schools. Why, given all these alternatives, would ANYONE willingly send their children to a school like Tilden when there are so many other options?

I can think of several reasons.

1.  Because they already have a child there, and it's easier to have two kids in one school than it is to have two kids in two different schools.

2.  Because they went there themselves.

3.  Because they live a short distance from the school and don't want their kids crossing gang lines to get to a school in a different part of the city.

4.  Because it is their default neighborhood school and they don't know enough or care enough to investigate other options.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by Head Skin on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:46 pm

I would imagine cost of transporting a kid/tuition also plays a role in some of these parent's choices. I'm sure a lot of them want what's best for their kid, but they don't have the luxury of sending them somewhere else.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by 19delta on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:04 pm

ramblinman wrote:
19delta wrote:
ramblinman wrote:Thanks for sharing that article.  It was a good read.  Interesting and telling that the CPS and its top staff leadership declined to be interviewed for the story.

While I feel badly for the students in those schools with fewer academic and extra-curricular options, there's a big part of me that feels good that the market is deciding the future of underperforming and unpopular schools.

Private schools have long competed in the student marketplace among themselves and among public schools.  This makes them nimble and forces them to be competitive and to adapt to changing realities.  Those that don't have closed their doors.  If I were a parent living in a community that had just one public school, with no other private schools within a reasonable distance to choose from, I would be concerned about there being no competition to help make my community's public school better and more responsive to market demands.

What is baffling to me is the artificial support created by the five-year moratorium of CPS school closings.  Enrollments of 250 in buildings that can accommodate 2,000?  No other language offerings beyond Spanish I and II?  Physics not offered?  Stop the madness!  At what point have we passed the point of being ridiculous?  If the market keeps deciding to send fewer and fewer kids to a specific school, just close the damn school when it gets down to below X% of capacity.  Stop throwing good money after bad.

I agree with everything you have posted here.

My main thought as I read the article was that it was terrific that parents who previously had to send their children to dangerous and failing schools now had much better choices. My biggest question was about the families who keep their children in these struggling schools. Why, given all these alternatives, would ANYONE willingly send their children to a school like Tilden when there are so many other options?

I can think of several reasons.

1.  Because they already have a child there, and it's easier to have two kids in one school than it is to have two kids in two different schools.

2.  Because they went there themselves.

3.  Because they live a short distance from the school and don't want their kids crossing gang lines to get to a school in a different part of the city.

4.  Because it is their default neighborhood school and they don't know enough or care enough to investigate other options.

I should have said "good reasons".

I don't really think any of those qualify as a "good" reason except possibly #3. But, if a student takes public transportation to school, then they aren't really walking through dangerous neighborhoods.

I guess my point is that I really don't feel "sorry" for schools like Tilden. Clearly, a school like that is not educating students. Should schools like that be allowed to continue to consume valuable resources?
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by 19delta on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:07 pm

Head Skin wrote:I would imagine cost of transporting a kid/tuition also plays a role in some of these parent's choices.  I'm sure a lot of them want what's best for their kid, but they don't have the luxury of sending them somewhere else.

I don't have a lo of knowledge about how CPS works. But if there is school choice within the district, there shouldn't be tuition. These are all public schools, correct? And I have to think that there is some kind of funding to help students utilize public transportation to get to school. But perhaps I am assuming too much.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by ramblinman on Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:37 pm

19delta wrote:
Head Skin wrote:I would imagine cost of transporting a kid/tuition also plays a role in some of these parent's choices.  I'm sure a lot of them want what's best for their kid, but they don't have the luxury of sending them somewhere else.

I don't have a lo of knowledge about how CPS works. But if there is school choice within the district, there shouldn't be tuition. These are all public schools, correct? And I have to think that there is some kind of funding to help students utilize public transportation to get to school. But perhaps I am assuming too much.

In Chicago, students pay a reduced fare of $.75 for the bus and $1.00 for the train.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by Head Skin on Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:58 pm

I can assure you that while this isn't much, many of those families feel it is way too much or that it should be free.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by 19delta on Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:11 pm

Head Skin wrote:I can assure you that while this isn't much, many of those families feel it is way too much or that it should be free.

Exactly. Which is why I don’t feel “sorry” for the Tilden students in the article. The idea that students are somehow trapped at schools like Tilden is false.
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Re: Interesting Read...

Post by 19delta on Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:12 pm

ramblinman wrote:
19delta wrote:
Head Skin wrote:I would imagine cost of transporting a kid/tuition also plays a role in some of these parent's choices.  I'm sure a lot of them want what's best for their kid, but they don't have the luxury of sending them somewhere else.

I don't have a lo of knowledge about how CPS works. But if there is school choice within the district, there shouldn't be tuition. These are all public schools, correct? And I have to think that there is some kind of funding to help students utilize public transportation to get to school. But perhaps I am assuming too much.

In Chicago, students pay a reduced fare of $.75 for the bus and $1.00 for the train.

Thanks. That does not seem prohibitive.
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