Running clock etiquette question

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Running clock etiquette question

Post by ging on Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:41 pm

Since there are a lot of coaches who visit here, I wanted to get the opinions of those of you who have been in this situation, on one side or the other. When there is a running clock, is there an unwritten rule that you don't onside kick when you're on either side of the scoreboard?
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Head Skin on Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:29 pm

I kind of thought it would be common sense, but after seeing teams we had put a running clock on in the first half do it ateast 6-8 times in 3 games in particular- 2 of them in the playoffs- I don't think that must be the case.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by 19delta on Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:01 am

If the team that is up by the running clock has started putting backups in, then I think it is generally bad form for the team on the losing end of the running clock to onside kick, especially if the scoring is a result of starters vs. backups.

I feel the same way about the defense run-blitzing 11 starters against the backups in a running clock situation.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:05 am

You coach your team, I'll coach mine.

I realized long ago that you can't control the other team or what they do, and while their decisions wouldn't always echo what my decision would be, there's no reason to get too upset about it. Oh, there might be a passing comment in the handshake line, but if a coach wants to onside kick after he scores against the JV in a running clock game, there's not much you can do except to have your JV KOR kids try to field it and use it as a teaching moment. Same with the blitzing idea. If people want to look like an @ss, I'm usually open to letting them fulfill that.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Doctor D on Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:13 am

My question for you coaches is: Do you run into situations where the other team is acting like jackasses in a running clock type game often?

As a fan, I can understand a team getting shutout clocked want to at least get on the board and score, whether it's against the 1st, 2nd, 3rd string... whomever.

I saw a team onside kick in last year's quarterfinals after going up 38-7, but I guess I can chalk that up to trying to get one more score to get the clock running.

I just haven't seen too many shenanigans when it comes to blurred lines in regards to blow out etiquette, and wondered how rampant of a problem it is across the state.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Head Skin on Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:26 am

SIFBCoach7 wrote:You coach your team, I'll coach mine.

I realized long ago that you can't control the other team or what they do, and while their decisions wouldn't always echo what my decision would be, there's no reason to get too upset about it.  Oh, there might be a passing comment in the handshake line, but if a coach wants to onside kick after he scores against the JV in a running clock game, there's not much you can do except to have your JV KOR kids try to field it and use it as a teaching moment.  Same with the blitzing idea.  If people want to look like an @ss, I'm usually open to letting them fulfill that.
I generally would agree with you, but after my last incident with a team on siding in a running clock I have a different view. After successfully on siding once already and having scored twice against our JV last year Martinsville on sided a second time and in the scramble for the ball ended up giving one of our best kids- note I didn't say best player- a very serious concussion.

That's just BS.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:31 pm

But what would you do to combat that? I'm honestly asking because I don't know what you do if the other team is going to onsides it when they're getting clocked. I'm not putting my 1st team KOR out there or hands team to receive it if I'm up 48-14 with a running clock.

And I'm not sure what I said to get a -1 on my first post...(whoever dinged me)
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by OldTitan on Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:36 pm

I only called for an onside kick twice this season. Sadly, due to our inconsistent kicking it happened a lot more than that.

I do get frustrated with a team that has us clearly beat late in the ballgame continuing to give the ball to their best player. That's just padding stats and IMO a disservice to that young man. What if he gets hurt? Frankly, I think that is poor coaching.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by wilky on Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:20 pm

once a running clock is initiated does it every go away?

hypothetical here. say prairie ridge stud qb gets hurt on first play of a game the other team gets up 40-0, but stud qb will back to start the second half, say he runs 4 plays 4tds and now its 40-28. what happens? I'm guessing the scenario is crazy rare but that could be a thing, what happens?

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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by ging on Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:44 pm

once the running clock starts, it remains in effect. 2nd half only
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Teetime on Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:32 pm

I'm not a coach. I'm sure that is a shock to many of you, but it's true.

From a fan's point of view it seems like neither coach ever gets much credit for their team's conduct on EITHER side of a running clock (the team way up, or the team way down). Fans find fault with almost any decision that gets made by either side.

SIBF, I don't know why you got dinged earlier in the thread either. I think that is exactly correct. Everyone should just coach their own team. Head Skin, what if your good kid had been concussed on a deep kick...I don't see the connection with the onside kick? It sucks when kids get hurt in the normal course of a game. If you are way behind, an onside kick would be in the normal course.

It seems to me that the team that is behind in a running clock has every right to do whatever it wants to get back in the game short of intentionally hurting an opponent. There used to be a bunch of fans on here that thought if their coach put in his subs because they were up by 40, that it was incumbent on the losing team to also put in their subs. If they left their starters in for more than one extra set of plays, that coach was emasculated here on Monday.


Last edited by Teetime on Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by tincup1215 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:01 pm

Teetime wrote:I'm not a coach. I'm sure that is a shock to many of you, but it's true.

From a fan's point of view it seems like neither coach ever gets much credit for their team's conduct on EITHER side of a running clock (the team way up, or the team way down). Fans find fault with almost any decision that gets made by either side.

SIBF, I don't know why you got dinged earlier in the thread either. I think that is exactly correct. Everyone should just coach their own team. Head Skin, what if your good kid had been concussed on a deep kick...I don't see the connection with the onside kick? It sucks when kids get hurt in the normal course of a game. If you are way behind, an onside kick would be in the normal course.

It seems to me that the team that is behind in a running clock has every right to do whatever it wants to get back in the game short of intentionally hurting an opponent. There used to be a bunch of fans on here that thought if their coach put in his subs because they were up by 40, that it was incumbent on the losing team to also put in their subs. If they left their starters in for more than one extra set of plays, that coach was emasculated here on Monday.

+1  

I remember that thread vividly

If I'm up 40, I'm going to enjoy the moment and coach the kids.  If they onside kick, then recover it, run the ball, and hope a back-up can break a run off for a TD
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by dusty7 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:36 pm

I've been on both sides and believe that you coach your team and let the other coach coach theirs. If they onside every time and it is their philosophy, then leave it be. If they onside when they are up, great job, we simply were good enough to get the ball.

And for the teams that run up the score, leave the starters in, onside, throw, etc., just remember that it is very hard to stay good at football for a long time. Eventually teams may turn around and do the same to you.

That is why once the game is decided, we pull out the star players first and then start subbing and often times running rotations so that everybody gets some playing time. I do not expect the losing team to pull any of their players although when we start subbing they often do.

We had one case this season when an RB for another team was trying to get the school record and scored a TD on our #2s and #3s with less than 1 minute left. Didn't bother anybody but both the coach and the kid were quick to tell our HC he was trying to break a school record. Classy move.

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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Ghengis Khan on Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:41 pm

What if you're up big and you put your subs in, but they leave their starters in and have 9 in box and are blitzing every play? Is it free game to throw the ball so that your sophs and back ups aren't getting teed off on? He is still playing to win the game, so can we play that way as well?

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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Teetime on Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:45 pm

Just my opinion. You are the coach....you get to coach.

That sounds like you have a perfectly sound reason for throwing. Throw it.

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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by tincup1215 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:49 pm

Ghengis Khan wrote:What if you're up big and you put your subs in, but they leave their starters in and have 9 in box and are blitzing every play? Is it free game to throw the ball so that your sophs and back ups aren't getting teed off on? He is still playing to win the game, so can we play that way as well?

Absolutely it's free game if they are doing that. I wouldn't start passing it every play, but enough to keep them honest. If the other team gets pissy because your passing with your back ups and a 40 pt lead because they're blitzing 9, that's just poor coaching on their part, not yours.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by #35 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:04 pm

Regarding the onside kick: If this were a regular-season game, I'd question it.

Since this was a do-or-die playoff game, I don't see a reason why you wouldn't do it. Once the winning team takes out their starters, that is not a cue for the losing team to roll over and die before the 48 minutes is up.

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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Head Skin on Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:14 pm

Teetime wrote:I'm not a coach. I'm sure that is a shock to many of you, but it's true.

From a fan's point of view it seems like neither coach ever gets much credit for their team's conduct on EITHER side of a running clock (the team way up, or the team way down). Fans find fault with almost any decision that gets made by either side.

SIBF, I don't know why you got dinged earlier in the thread either. I think that is exactly correct. Everyone should just coach their own team. Head Skin, what if your good kid had been concussed on a deep kick...I don't see the connection with the onside kick? It sucks when kids get hurt in the normal course of a game. If you are way behind, an onside kick would be in the normal course.

It seems to me that the team that is behind in a running clock has every right to do whatever it wants to get back in the game short of intentionally hurting an opponent. There used to be a bunch of fans on here that thought if their coach put in his subs because they were up by 40, that it was incumbent on the losing team to also put in their subs. If they left their starters in for more than one extra set of plays, that coach was emasculated here on Monday.
He was concussed particularly by the onside because as he was going for the ball, one of their kids dove and there was specific helmet to helmet contact. There was under 2mins left in the game at that time. They had also called all 3 timeouts during the previous drive to score.

I just found it completely classless and when one of kids got hurt I got pretty heated about it. I don’t know what the answer is, other than the other coach not being a dick. I was on the other end of a lot of running clocks this past fall, and while we still had starters in at the end of the game and we’re running our offense it was mostly because our starters were 7-8 freshman or soph and needed the reps. We never even contemplated on siding.

You have to learn to take and hand out your beatings like a man.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Head Skin on Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:16 pm

#35 wrote:Regarding the onside kick: If this were a regular-season game, I'd question it.

Since this was a do-or-die playoff game, I don't see a reason why you wouldn't do it. Once the winning team takes out their starters, that is not a cue for the losing team to roll over and die before the 48 minutes is up.
Then, it shouldn’t be decried when the winning team puts in their starters and continues to score at will.

But, we all know it would be.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by Head Skin on Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:17 pm

SIFBCoach7 wrote:But what would you do to combat that?  I'm honestly asking because I don't know what you do if the other team is going to onsides it when they're getting clocked.  I'm not putting my 1st team KOR out there or hands team to receive it if I'm up 48-14 with a running clock.

And I'm not sure what I said to get a -1 on my first post...(whoever dinged me)
‘‘Twas not I.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by OldTitan on Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:33 pm

SIFBCoach7 wrote:
And I'm not sure what I said to get a -1 on my first post...(whoever dinged me)

Now, I wish it was me, but at this point it would just be sloppy seconds.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by 19delta on Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:24 pm

Head Skin wrote:
#35 wrote:Regarding the onside kick: If this were a regular-season game, I'd question it.

Since this was a do-or-die playoff game, I don't see a reason why you wouldn't do it. Once the winning team takes out their starters, that is not a cue for the losing team to roll over and die before the 48 minutes is up.
Then, it shouldn’t be decried when the winning team puts in their starters and continues to score at will.

But, we all know it would be.

Dakota vs. Westville state title game.

Dakota was destroying Westville and started putting backups in. Westville coach left Caleb Pratt in so he could rack up a bunch of yards against the Dakota frosh-soph. Dakota head coach put his starters back in and immediately scored a TD.

Dakota coach took a lot of shit for that but it was 100% the right thing to do.
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by wilky on Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:56 pm

so put offensive starters back in too? think maybe just defensive would have proved his point, unless it was the defense who scored.

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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by 19delta on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:19 pm

Ghengis Khan wrote:What if you're up big and you put your subs in, but they leave their starters in and have 9 in box and are blitzing every play? Is it free game to throw the ball so that your sophs and back ups aren't getting teed off on? He is still playing to win the game, so can we play that way as well?

Many years ago, I did this.

We were dub wing. Late in the game and we were up by 4 TDs. Other team couldn't move the ball. So we started subbing backups in on offense and just planned on running the ball and taking time off the clock.

They left their defensive starters in and basically put 9 guys on the LOS. Just came screaming on every play and smashing our guys (again...backups) in the backfield. No pretense whatsoever of respecting the pass. And then, to add insult to injury, after teeing off on our guys, they would hoot and holler and talk shit as if they had done something great.

That lasted exactly 1 series. Next time we got the ball, I called power pass. Our A back got a free release and ran a perfect corner route. QB hit him in stride. No one within 20 yards of the A back when he caught the ball.

The next series and the rest of the game, they backed off and played more honest. A couple of the assistant coaches got in my face during the handshake and said that it was BS that I was throwing the ball late on them. Said it was bush league and they would remember it next year.

Fortunately, I got fired so I never was the recipient of that payback! 😂
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Re: Running clock etiquette question

Post by 19delta on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:25 pm

wilky wrote:so put offensive starters back in too? think maybe just defensive would have proved his point, unless it was the defense who scored.

Yes. Obviously, Westville was not ready to concede even though Dakota signalled their willingness to stop slaughter. So, when Westville left the starters in so Pratt could pad his stats (he had done little up to that point), it was completely logical for Dakota to resume the game with their starters.

Westville got the point pretty quick and pulled their starters. After doing so, Dakota did, as well.
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