Question as a parent

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Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:20 am

I will try to keep this as concise as I can, but seeking the opinion of other coaches (and parents), as I don't want my parent glasses to alter my view.

My daughter has really started enjoying golf and last May, I approached her principal about her participating in the IESA golf tournament this year as a 7th grader. She also participates in softball. Those sports are at the same time. Knowing there would be a potential conflict on 9/16 between state golf and state softball sectional, the principal said this was fine and she would be allowed to participate in both. Being proactive, the first day of softball practice in July, myself and my daughter went and talked to her softball coach after practice, explained that she was participating in the IESA golf tournament, and there was a potential conflict on 9/5 (softball practice) and 9/16 (softball sectional). She might be back in time for practice, depending on her tee time 9/5. The coaches said that would be fine, and one of them even mentioned they had softball girls in the past also participate in XC during the season. (precedent - that's important)

August 7 - Softball coach texts me to ask what the conflict dates are. I tell him, and he says Thanks.

She doesn't play a lot this season, but is a decent athlete and contributes when she is given the chance.

August 21 - I get a text last night from the coach saying, "he needs to know if she is playing golf or softball in the post-season. The girls that get cut can stay as managers & statisticians, but will not be able to play in the post season. So.....?" My response was that it seemed unfair to cut her from the softball team prior to post season if she chose to play the golf post season, especially when we have already paid our activity fee for both sports this year.

Now, the entire season, we have known that there was a possible conflict on 9/16....but, my daughter has to qualify for state golf and the softball team has to qualify for sectionals for that all to even be an issue. I'd say the chances are 50/50 for both of them happening. Essentially, it sounds like now he is going to make her choose, and if she chooses golf, he will cut her from the post-season roster because of it. There are 3 girls that need to be cut to reach roster limits. She isn't really in the bottom three, but now he tells me she's on the "bubble" of being cut. I felt we/she did everything in our power to alert the coaches of the conflict, were given approval by the principal in May to participate in both, and just last night he changes his mind? After a brief, but intense discussion with the coach on the phone last night, he doesn't think it would be "fair" to the other girls who might get cut to leave my daughter on the team, with the chance that she might miss the sectional due to qualifying for golf state. I replied that it's not "fair" to my daughter who had approval to play, discussed it with the coach, and now you are going to make her choose the week that rosters are due. If she deserves to make the softball post season roster because she is talented enough to be in the top 18 spots, then she should be granted that spot.

To make things more complicated, there is a 7th grade boy who is also playing golf and baseball. Baseball rosters are due before state golf also, and baseball regional semi-finals would conflict with state golf. In my mind, if my daughter isn't allowed to continue to play softball because of golf, then the boy should not be allowed to continue to play baseball in the post season for the exact same reasons. I don't know how you could enforce a newly* created policy for one sport (gender) and not the other. That seems like a Title IX issue (which is a slippery slope), let alone going against previous permission granted from the principal. Oh yeah, and the baseball/ golf boy is one of their better players, and the Superintendent's son. Shocked

So, Turksters, am I crazy, or do I have a valid point? Appreciative of any independent 3rd parties opinions. I don't have a false sense of reality of my daughter's abilities. She's not a starter, but not the worst. She deserves more time than she gets, but I understand what the coaches are doing and the politics behind it. What I DON'T understand is pulling my daughter's softball season out from under her, after it wasn't an issue and was approved by the principal and discussed with the coaches. Interested in hearing y'alls thoughts.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by tincup1215 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:23 am

3rd party here

You can't compare what the Softball coaches and what the Baseball coaches do since there is no set school policy. With no policy, it is up to the discretion of the coaches of that sport hence why the boy can do it and your daughter can't.

The softball coaches didn't really think this through when you had your original conversation. If your original conversation never happened, I would agree with the Softball coaches. But they told you this wouldn't be an issue and now they made it one... I get where they're coming from, but they should honor the bed they made.


When it comes down to it, it's your daughter's decision and it's a very grown up decision for a 7th grader. Big picture, this is not a life-altering decision. When she's in high school, she can participate in both Girls Golf (Fall) and Softball (Spring).



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Re: Question as a parent

Post by Teetime on Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:54 am

Parent here:

It seems cruel to cut three kids at playoff time from a team roster that has played a season together. Who thought that up? Did the kids know from the outset that they stood a chance of being cut at the end of the season?

If the softball coach had just shut his mouth and just made your daughter one of the three end of season cuts it seems like there would not be an issue here. You could question why he might have done that but you don't sound like the type that would do that.

Having said that, I agree with tincup. Leave the superintendent's son out of this. The softball coach needs to man-up. He screwed the pooch a couple of times in this scenario and he needs to recognize that.

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:18 am

The IESA limits your post season roster to 18. He did say at the parent meeting that 3 girls would not be able to play in the post season, so everyone was aware, and why we brought it up with the coaching staff immediately upon the start of the season. And, your second point is dead on. I don't agree with the amount of playing time she receives, but I coached for 16 years and it is what it is. The softball coach opened this can of worms with his ultimatum, so I feel he's kind of hand-tied for this season and should let her dress if she's in the top 18. If he wants to not allow it next year, that's fine, and we know it going into school and she can make a decision.

I realize tincup's point, and completely understand the coaches reasoning. BUT, it will be hard for my 12 year old to understand that. Especially after she was told it was "fine" for her to participate.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by wilky on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:44 am

SIFBCoach7 wrote:
I realize tincup's point, and completely understand the coaches reasoning.  BUT, it will be hard for my 12 year old to understand that.  Especially after she was told it was "fine" for her to participate.

but she did participate, just like everyone else on the team. and she also has to deal with the implications of possibly not making the cut like 2-3 others will. you were proactive in your communication, and I applaud that, but the softball coach agreed to let her play two sports at once, he didn't agree that from day one she would make the playoff roster regardless of performance. that isn't fair to the other kids on the cutline, that I would assume all have a very similar talent level.

the coach is in a tough spot, and probably realizing its a bummer to cut 3 kids, and has a loophole with yours, that if she talent wise isn't way better than the cutline, will still have a sport to play in.

I tend to side with the coach.

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by ging on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:56 am

the bigger question is who the hell plays softball in august and september?
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:06 pm

wilky wrote:
SIFBCoach7 wrote:
I realize tincup's point, and completely understand the coaches reasoning.  BUT, it will be hard for my 12 year old to understand that.  Especially after she was told it was "fine" for her to participate.

but she did participate, just like everyone else on the team. and she also has to deal with the implications of possibly not making the cut like 2-3 others will. you were proactive in your communication, and I applaud that, but the softball coach agreed to let her play two sports at once, he didn't agree that from day one she would make the playoff roster regardless of performance. that isn't fair to the other kids on the cutline, that I would assume all have a very similar talent level.

the coach is in a tough spot, and probably realizing its a bummer to cut 3 kids, and has a loophole with yours, that if she talent wise isn't way better than the cutline, will still have a sport to play in.

I tend to side with the coach.

When he asks if she is choosing to play golf or softball in the post season, that statement there tells me that she is on the post season roster for softball and good enough to have made the 18 person roster.

Unless she still wants to play golf, then she's off, solely because she wanted to golf, not because she was not a talented enough softball player.

Also, there is no regular season in IESA golf. Just a sectional date, and if you advance, state. She has missed no softball activities (practice, games) due to the upcoming golf sectional.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by wilky on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:25 pm

so I think the main issue, is whether or not the coach would have her on the roster or not if she wasn't playing golf. which seems to be a variable we don't know, but presumably so. it seems the coach pickled himself when he started talking about fairness as opposed to she is or is not above the cut line based on talent. you want her to be judged on talent and not fairness cause you did the preemptive work, and the coach likely wants as few pissed off parents as possible, which seems inevitable at this point he is going to.

tough spot all around.

my 2 cents is that the best way to avoid this in the future is to have the "A" team and the rest from the beginning of the season. the point that teetime make about who cuts at the end? I think is valid. which I think is why most teams don't carry more people during the regular season then the playoff roster allows. could have kept the 3 kids around as alternates all along, giving playing time as available, but would only make playoff roster in case of injury or quit.

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by tm on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:57 pm

ging wrote:the bigger question is who the hell plays softball in august and september?

I don't know anything about IESA, but just about every travel team around here plays some type of fall schedule. Some more intense than others.

My bigger question would be how do you have a softball team with 21 players on it? Playing time can be tricky with a 12 player roster, I can't even imagine having 12 players on the bench each inning.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:05 pm

tm wrote:
ging wrote:the bigger question is who the hell plays softball in august and september?

I don't know anything about IESA, but just about every travel team around here plays some type of fall schedule. Some more intense than others.

My bigger question would be how do you have a softball team with 21 players on it? Playing time can be tricky with a 12 player roster, I can't even imagine having 12 players on the bench each inning.

In about 6-7 games throughout the course of the season, they play "B innings" after the completion of the varsity game. Sometimes 3 innings, sometimes 4 or 5. That's the only time those other girls really get on the field.

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by OldTitan on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:08 pm

I understand your frustration. I think if my daughter was on the lower half of the roster I would choose the golf route and let softball go if the coach cuts your daughter.

If you make a stink, she's not going to see the field.
If you don't make a stink, she's not going to see the field.

Politically, dragging the Superintendent's son into it is a very bad idea.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by ging on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:13 pm

I think you handled this correctly by bringing it up way beforehand. the coach, it seems, is looking for an "easy" way to cut one of the players.

that said, these are the unintended consequences of an athlete trying to play 2 sports in one season.

i'm going to side with you on this because you were proactive.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:05 pm

OldTitan wrote:I understand your frustration. I think if my daughter was on the lower half of the roster I would choose the golf route and let softball go if the coach cuts your daughter.

If you make a stink, she's not going to see the field.
If you don't make a stink, she's not going to see the field.

Politically, dragging the Superintendent's son into it is a very bad idea.

Yeah, it's really a no win situation. Just frustrating when people go back on their word. It remains to be seen if she will be cut.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by Teetime on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:16 pm

If he cuts her, I'm happy to come up there and beat the crap out of him.

That should make you feel better.

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:35 pm

Teetime wrote:If he cuts her, I'm happy to come up there and beat the crap out of him.

That should make you feel better.

Very.

He made his point last night by benching her for the start of the B game (has started every B game this season). Should be a fun rest of the week. Very Happy
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by crusader on Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:15 am

SIFBCoach7 wrote:
Teetime wrote:If he cuts her, I'm happy to come up there and beat the crap out of him.

That should make you feel better.

Very.

He made his point last night by benching her for the start of the B game (has started every B game this season). Should be a fun rest of the week. Very Happy
Now he's just being a jagoff.

Initially, I was on the fence here. YOU did the right thing off the bat - but you asked for a lot, as you probably know. My guess is that the coach did not fully grasp what you asked at the time or did not think the stars would align that it would be an issue.

Now that it's on the horizon, he takes a semi-defend-able position: Should I hold a spot that another kid could fill for someone who may not be available. Why not just give it to the kid who has committed to it (knowing your kid would also be rewarded with her golf tourney.)

Now, had he and you had a private conversation at that point where he explained how he's kinda stuck, you two - and then you daughter - MIGHT have come to a solution whereby she steps aside and everyone sings each other's praises, no hurt feelings.

But he decided to be a dick. And now he's taking actions that hurt your daughter to intentionally be a dick.

I say you unleash Tee on him now.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:12 pm

And batted her last in the order. Honestly, I just want this season to be over with. We discussed it with my daughter after she didn't understand the benching, and her response was, "but he said it was okay?"

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by wilky on Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:26 pm

I agree cru, this guy went the dickhead route.

this is still a lesson, unfortunately not all lessons come from positives.

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by crusader on Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:14 pm

SIFBCoach7 wrote:And batted her last in the order. Honestly, I just want this season to be over with. We discussed it with my daughter after she didn't understand the benching, and her response was, "but he said it was okay?"

What course is your kid playing in your avatar? At first I was thinking Grand Marias, but now, I don't think so.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by ging on Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:46 pm

yeah, that was a dick move by him.

what you've got to do is cut the hamstring on the back of his leg right at the bottom. he'll never play golf again, because his weight displacement goes back, all his weight is on his right foot, and he'll push everything off to the right. he'll never come through on anything. he'll quit the game.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by Teetime on Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:46 pm

ging wrote:yeah, that was a dick move by him.  

what you've got to do is cut the hamstring on the back of his leg right at the bottom. he'll never play golf again, because his weight displacement goes back, all his weight is on his right foot, and he'll push everything off to the right. he'll never come through on anything. he'll quit the game.

I don't usually cut the men I beat up.....but if ging is insisting, I'll remove his hamstring and put it on a plaque for your daughter to hang in her room.

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:55 am

crusader wrote:
SIFBCoach7 wrote:And batted her last in the order. Honestly, I just want this season to be over with. We discussed it with my daughter after she didn't understand the benching, and her response was, "but he said it was okay?"

What course is your kid playing in your avatar? At first I was thinking Grand Marias, but now, I don't think so.

Legends of Champaign. It's a great little executive course with two par 4s. Really good to work on your short game. Always in good shape. If she plays big courses, we usually go to Lake of the Woods in Mahomet.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:55 am

Teetime wrote:
ging wrote:yeah, that was a dick move by him.  

what you've got to do is cut the hamstring on the back of his leg right at the bottom. he'll never play golf again, because his weight displacement goes back, all his weight is on his right foot, and he'll push everything off to the right. he'll never come through on anything. he'll quit the game.

I don't usually cut the men I beat up.....but if ging is insisting, I'll remove his hamstring and put it on a plaque for your daughter to hang in her room.

Perfect.
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Re: Question as a parent

Post by wilky on Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:50 am

ging wrote:

what you've got to do is cut the hamstring on the back of his leg right at the bottom. he'll never play golf again, because his weight displacement goes back, all his weight is on his right foot, and he'll push everything off to the right. he'll never come through on anything. he'll quit the game.

the Achilles.

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Re: Question as a parent

Post by crusader on Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:56 am

wilky wrote:
ging wrote:

what you've got to do is cut the hamstring on the back of his leg right at the bottom. he'll never play golf again, because his weight displacement goes back, all his weight is on his right foot, and he'll push everything off to the right. he'll never come through on anything. he'll quit the game.

the Achilles.
Please tell me you know this was a a Caddyshack quote.
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