Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

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Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by OldTitan on Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:14 am

Sorry to interrupt with a football topic... Laughing

What do you do with kids that skip all of your summer camps and lifting and then show up day one of practice?

I have never 'punished' these kids in any way and I wonder if it is going to bite me in the rear this season.

Also, keep in mind, some of these last second show-ups are probably talented enough to take starting positions.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by wolverine55 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:34 am

Unfortunately, given our how our numbers situation looks for this fall, welcome them with open arms is my best answer!

I'm not sure there is much you can do, in all honesty, other than stress the importance of offseason work and if these kids aren't seniors hope they buy in more next summer.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by Bighitter11 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:11 am

I know a school that use a summer points system and if you do reach the bear minimum you dont get your decal, playing time the first three games is reduced to missing a 1/4 or 1/2 depending on just how far off you were from the minimum. They also had to stay after and do extra conditioning after practice each day was 1 point until they got to that benchmark. The conditioning usually sucked really bad and hopefully made them realize that summer stuff was a much better option. It hasnt really been a problem with a Starter though.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by Head Skin on Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:36 pm

They may be talented enough, but are they going to know what's going on?
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by dusty7 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:05 am


My philosophy has always been that the summer is for learning and obviously you will be behind if you don't show up. However if a new student, kid who has to work, travel team sports, family demands they go on vacation, etc shows up in August, they still have the opportunity to learn. If they learn the system and are more gifted athletically and put the team in a better position to win they will get the nod.
This typically doesn't ever happen but in the rarity it does the change doesn't happen until week 3 or 4.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by 19delta on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:04 am

I have to wonder how committed these kinds of kids are, though. Sure...they might be terrific athletes but are you guys, as the coaches, ever going to be able to really trust them? I think there is something to be said about a group of kids who go through a summer together. There is a bond that forms between those kids as a result of shared suffering. The kids who just show up on August 14th aren't a part of that. They haven't invested their blood, sweat, and tears during the summer so they don't have anything to lose. If the season turns south, there is no incentive for them to suck it up and dig deep. They just need to wait out the 2-and-a-half months until basketball season starts.

I'm sure that there are all sorts of mitigating circumstances and if I was a high school football coach, I certainly wouldn't want to run off the 6-4 all-Conference basketball player with the 30" VJ who decides at the last minute he wants to play football his senior year. Let's face it...kids who play multiple sports are stretched pretty thin over the summer. It's a tough spot for coaches to be in. With declining enrollments and player participation numbers, you guys aren't in the position to tell any kid who wants to play that they can't. But, at the same time, you also have to think about how much those kids are committed to the team being successful and how much of themselves they are willing to dedicate to that effort.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by SIFBCoach7 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:47 am

Institute a conditioning test. I think quite a few schools do something similar. For a period of about 5 years, we would use the 1st morning practice of doubles to do "fitness tests". All players had to go through it, and those that had worked all summer usually breezed right through. Those that had skipped, usually ended up with some embarrassing vomit or poor performance that was a bit humbling. It exposed them, and that was usually enough to send a message to themselves, and the team, of where they stood.

300 yd shuttle (50 yard sprint - down & back 3x) Timed: Skills under :60, OL/DL :70ish
40 yd dash (2x)
Squat max (4 attempts)
Bench max (4 attempts)
Hang Clean max (4x) 100%+ body weight was the goal
Pro Agility (2x)

I always wanted to include anyone with 90%+ attendance was exempt, but that never got approval Smile
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by OldTitan on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:48 pm

wolverine55 wrote:Unfortunately, given our how our numbers situation looks for this fall, welcome them with open arms is my best answer!  

I'm not sure there is much you can do, in all honesty, other than stress the importance of offseason work and if these kids aren't seniors hope they buy in more next summer.

I hear you. This has been my course over the past few years.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by OldTitan on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:49 pm

Bighitter11 wrote:I know a school that use a summer points system and if you do reach the bear minimum you dont get your decal, playing time the first three games is reduced to missing a 1/4 or 1/2 depending on just how far off you were from the minimum.  They also had to stay after and do extra conditioning after practice each day was 1 point until they got to that benchmark.  The conditioning usually sucked really bad and hopefully made them realize that summer stuff was a much better option.  It hasnt really been a problem with a Starter though.

Anything less than full decal would be difficult and probably be vetoed by higher admin.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by OldTitan on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:51 pm

Head Skin wrote:They may be talented enough, but are they going to know what's going on?  

Defensively, they could catch up very quickly. Offensively, probably not. One of the discouraging things is one of the kids told others he wasn't coming out because he was a defensive player and we would 'make' him play both ways...
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by OldTitan on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:51 pm

19delta wrote:I have to wonder how committed these kinds of kids are, though. Sure...they might be terrific athletes but are you guys, as the coaches, ever going to be able to really trust them?

Absolutely the issue from my point of view.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by OldTitan on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:52 pm

SIFBCoach7 wrote:Institute a conditioning test.  I think quite a few schools do something similar.  For a period of about 5 years, we would use the 1st morning practice of doubles to do "fitness tests".  All players had to go through it, and those that had worked all summer usually breezed right through.  Those that had skipped, usually ended up with some embarrassing vomit or poor performance that was a bit humbling.  It exposed them, and that was usually enough to send a message to themselves, and the team, of where they stood.

300 yd shuttle (50 yard sprint - down & back 3x)  Timed: Skills under :60, OL/DL :70ish
40 yd dash (2x)
Squat max (4 attempts)
Bench max (4 attempts)
Hang Clean max (4x) 100%+ body weight was the goal
Pro Agility (2x)

I always wanted to include anyone with 90%+ attendance was exempt, but that never got approval  Smile

An idea I need to consider. I like your 90% exemption.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by center on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:03 pm

Long post...copied from email I sent recently about this topic.

my personal objectives for the summer were

1. Make sure kids showed up to stuff to make it worth mine and the coaches time.

2. Get kids in good enough physical condition to be able to effectively practice once official practice started.

What we did was have weight room available all summer. Morning and afternoon session to give all kids opportunity. Lifting obviously critical but by July they need to work on running condition.

After July 4th we added our speed agility program. Offered M-W-F with an am and pm session. Only 30 minutes long but progressively intense.

Did that for 3 weeks and 4th week was camp (4days). You got one credit for each workout or day of camp you attended. You could get credit for a morning and afternoon if you attended both.

Ended up being about 15 total work days. I made varsity get 13 credits, FS around 11. If you did that you should be in respectable shape and attended at least some of camp. You could miss an entire week for vacation or whatever and still hit your goal. (No questions asked)

If not you ran the mile first day of practice for time (goal times were very hard to make). If you didn't make time you had to run it before practice the next morning and so forth until you either made it or first week was over. Everyone that ever had to run the mile said it SUCKED. Mile has zero application to football but made kids show up.

Got kids to do something in July though. Best motivator we had.

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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by OldTitan on Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:46 pm

center wrote:Long post...copied from email I sent recently about this topic.

my personal objectives for the summer were

1.  Make sure kids showed up to stuff to make it worth mine and the coaches time.

2.  Get kids in good enough physical condition to be able to effectively practice once official practice started.

What we did was have weight room available all summer. Morning and afternoon session to give all kids opportunity. Lifting obviously critical but by July they need to work on running condition.
 
After July 4th we added our speed agility program. Offered M-W-F with an am and pm session. Only 30 minutes long but progressively intense.

Did that for 3 weeks and 4th week was camp (4days). You got one credit for each workout or day of camp you attended. You could get credit for a morning and afternoon if you attended both.

Ended up being about 15 total work days. I made varsity get 13 credits, FS around 11. If you did that you should be in respectable shape and attended at least some of camp. You could miss an entire week for vacation or whatever and still hit your goal. (No questions asked)

If not you ran the mile first day of practice for time (goal times were very hard to make). If you didn't make time you had to run it before practice the next morning and so forth until you either made it or first week was over. Everyone that ever had to run the mile said it SUCKED. Mile has zero application to football but made kids show up.

Got kids to do something in July though. Best motivator we had.

Right in line with what I am considering in the future. Do you happen to recall what the mile time goals were that you used?
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by center on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:03 pm

Varsity mile times were 5:30 for backs and 6:30 for line.

Sophs were 6:00 backs, 7:00 line

I think freshmen were 6:30 and 7:30.

Possible but very challenging. Each day they had to run it again we gave them 15 seconds but that didnt really help them that much.

Usually ended it by the time the first week was over. Even 3-4 days of that makes the point they better show up next summer.

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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by mcscot91 on Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:44 am

While at Riverdale, I also made the physical fitness test as our first practice. 40 x 2, 100 x 1, push-ups, sit-ups, squat-jumps, and then a mile for time. 5:30 for backs, 6:30 for line. Our added incentive was everytime you showed up for weights or football specific events, you could add 1 second to your required time. I believe some kids were able to add 75 seconds, maybe more. Made showing up in the summer a bigger incentive.

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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by wilky on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:30 pm

I cant fathom kids not coming during off season. I cant think of very few people in my 4 years at morris where someone would miss a summer practice, from the bench warmers' bench warmers to all staters. I understand the psyche of kids has changed but that just wasn't an option for us. I missed my jr year summer camp for reconstructive nose surgery due to a 7 on 7 injury and by the time I got back I was so far out of our offensive loop that I had little chance to be anything other than scout team scrub. that one hurt.

I gotta ask about the 5:30 mile. All of your backs could do that? I wasn't all state, but I wasn't a slug. I haven't sniffed a 5:30 mile in my life. I was all conference linebacker and in track as well, and the fastest mile I can remember running was just under 7 and I was dead afterwards.

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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by mc140 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:16 am

Summer attendance decides jersey selection. That seems to work particularity with the varsity kids. Some kids would rather quit than get a number in the 40s or 80s.

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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by crusader on Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:58 pm

We had to get a 6-minute mile and the big-boys got 7 minutes. With helmets.

This was long ago and nothing was mandatory over the summer, but that was Schott's barometer to see who was in shape and who was not. You ran each day until you hit your mark.
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Re: Players Who Skip Off-Season Summer

Post by Horsefeather on Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:54 pm

wilky wrote:I cant fathom kids not coming during off season. I cant think of very few people in my 4 years at morris where someone would miss a summer practice, from the bench warmers' bench warmers to all staters. I understand the psyche of kids has changed but that just wasn't an option for us. I missed my jr year summer camp for reconstructive nose surgery due to a 7 on 7 injury and by the time I got back I was so far out of our offensive loop that I had little chance to be anything other than scout team scrub. that one hurt.

I gotta ask about the 5:30 mile. All of your backs could do that? I wasn't all state, but I wasn't a slug. I haven't sniffed a 5:30 mile in my life. I was all conference linebacker and in track as well, and the fastest mile I can remember running was just under 7 and I was dead afterwards.

Lil' Horse had an eventful summer coming into high school. As I posted in another thread, he's a soccer player, and he missed two full weeks of practice this summer at two camps... one with the Boy Scouts to Boundary Waters, and one with a Church Camp. Both in June.

He walked into the first practice in July and first thing we did was run the mile. He stepped on the track and proceeded to run a 5:38, best of any of the JV players and fourth overall in the program. Gotta admit, I was a little shocked. Shocked

A 5:30 for a varsity back, if he's worth his spit, isn't impossible. But if they aren't in shape, it would suck.
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