Schwarbs and stuff

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Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:56 pm

Good things the Cubs didn't listen to those saying you should trade him for a starter last winter because of his once in a lifetime hitting prowess...
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by wilky on Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:10 pm

hes 24, on pace for 30 hrs and doesn't have 162 games under his belt yet. even as a sox fan, I don't think his career is over cause he will spend a short time in AAA getting his consistency better

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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:17 pm

A number 1 or 2 starter would do them a lot more good than a butcher fielder who can't hit his weight and whose best position doesn't exist in the league he plays in.

PS- he's hitting. 171. That abysmal for a defensive only catcher.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by wilky on Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:41 pm

what American league team was offering up a 1 or 2 starter for him?

I follow that stuff closely and don't remember it, but if they passed on a trade for a that, I would tend to agree with you

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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Teetime on Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:41 pm

Head Skin wrote:PS- he's hitting. 171.  That abysmal for a defensive only catcher.


He's NOT a defensive only catcher.

The Cubs peeps know in infinite amount more about baseball talent than Head Skin. They have the World Series hardware on display up there just in case you want to check it out.

He is a Jim Thome in training.


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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:41 pm

Time will tell.  

But just for the sake of argument, what hall of famer got sent down in their third season for hitting 171?


Last edited by Head Skin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:43 pm

wilky wrote:what American league team was offering up a 1 or 2 starter for him?

I follow that stuff closely and don't remember it, but if they passed on a trade for a that, I would tend to agree with you
IIRC there was at least cursory talks about Sale or Quintana for Schwarbs with other pieces surrounding them. Schwarber was deemed untouchable.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:44 pm

Teetime wrote:
Head Skin wrote:PS- he's hitting. 171.  That abysmal for a defensive only catcher.


He's NOT a defensive only catcher.

The Cubs peeps know in infinite amount more about baseball talent than Head Skin. They have the World Series hardware on display up there just in case you want to check it out.

He is a Jim Thome in training.

Kenny Williams won a WS too.  How's that worked long term for the Sox?

Oh ya, he traded for Jim Thome...

PS- in his second season in the league Thome hit 314 with 25 home runs and 73 RBIs.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by wolverine55 on Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:09 pm

It is entirely possible the Cubs made a mistake in not trading Schwarber last offseason; however, almost literally every other roster move/non-move the last five years has been spot on in building this team.  I'll take that.

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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by 19delta on Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:31 pm

I agree with Head Skin. They should have traded Schwarber to the AL over the winter. I hope the kid isn't ruined.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:08 am

wilky wrote:hes 24, on pace for 30 hrs and doesn't have 162 games under his belt yet. even as a sox fan, I don't think his career is over cause he will spend a short time in AAA getting his consistency better
There are currently 75 players in MLB with as many or more HRs Schwarber. The White Sox have 4. MATT DAVIDSON has 17.

PS- Schwarber is a career 207 hitter in MLB.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:24 am

wolverine55 wrote:It is entirely possible the Cubs made a mistake in not trading Schwarber last offseason; however, almost literally every other roster move/non-move the last five years has been spot on in building this team.  I'll take that.

Theo seems to be trying to build a young team of position stars and hope to sign pitchers in free agency. Problem with that is by the time a lot top tier guys get to free agency they're shot. I think former Cubs target David Price could show that (although if he turns this year around it could make last year look like an aberration).

It's not exactly Moneyball, but power, especially with low BA and high K rates, isn't really hard to find these days. Good, young pitching with contract control is the unicorn to chase right now. If you can get some, especially in exchange for something your organization has in spades, you have to do it.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by OSUBucks on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:34 am

I sure as hell wouldn't compare Ken Williams to Theo Epstein.
It's too early to say how things will turn out for Schwarber. He's put a lot of pressure on himself and needs to get himself straightened out. I look for him to be back with the team sooner rather than later.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:01 pm

My Kenny comment was more a response to the "They won a WS, so they can't be questioned" tone.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by 19delta on Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:55 pm

Head Skin wrote:My Kenny comment was more a response to the "They won a WS, so they can't be questioned" tone.

The worst thing about the 2005 WS was that it was done with Kenny Williams. He lucked out and caught lightening in a bottle for one season and, up until this past winter, the front office has basically been trying to replicate 2005 ever since.

Not a big Kenny Williams fan, obviously.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:10 pm

I think KW by himself could have continued as a halfway successful GM. The fallout between he and Ozzie set the franchise back to the late 80s.

I think they're on the right track with Hahn, I just wish they could have fleeced someone this past winter for Q and Frazier too. They're both mediocre to terrible and their trade value is suffering mightily because of it.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by 19delta on Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:26 pm

Head Skin wrote:I think KW by himself could have continued as a halfway successful GM.  The fallout between he and Ozzie set the franchise back to the late 80s.

I think they're on the right track with Hahn, I just wish they could have fleeced someone this past winter for Q and Frazier too.  They're both mediocre to terrible and their trade value is suffering mightily because of it.

I think that this winter, for whatever reason, Williams finally got out of Rick Hahn's way. Up until this winter, Kenny was still the defacto GM. I think that Hahn is finally being allowed to do the job.

I don't think Williams is a good executive at all. Huge ego that really isn't deserved. Ugly, public personal feuds with Ozzie and Frank Thomas. And the ridiculous manner in which the Adam LaRouche thing got handled. He just isn't very good at his job.

But, like Hawk, he will never say anything bad about the organization or ownership and that's why he has kept a job for so long. Most teams (at least the good ones) would have fired Williams a long time ago.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by wilky on Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:30 pm

Head Skin wrote:
wilky wrote:hes 24, on pace for 30 hrs and doesn't have 162 games under his belt yet. even as a sox fan, I don't think his career is over cause he will spend a short time in AAA getting his consistency better
There are currently 75 players in MLB with as many or more HRs Schwarber.  The White Sox have 4.  MATT DAVIDSON has 17.

PS- Schwarber is a career 207 hitter in MLB.

most of them are current or former all stars....

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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:42 pm

There are currently 750 players on active rosters in MLB. If every team carries 13 pitchers there are only 360 position players in MLB. That means 21% of the league has as many, or more HRs that Kyle Schwarber.

I can't believe that all of those players are all stars. I can almost assure you Schwarber has the lowest BA, OB% and probably OPS of any of those 75. On top of being a bottom of the league defender.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by wilky on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:17 am

Head Skin wrote:
wilky wrote:what American league team was offering up a 1 or 2 starter for him?

I follow that stuff closely and don't remember it, but if they passed on a trade for a that, I would tend to agree with you
IIRC there was at least cursory talks about Sale or Quintana for Schwarbs with other pieces surrounding them.  Schwarber was deemed untouchable.

those talks were kind of in jest. theo said the sox and cubs talked for about 30 seconds. the cubs wanted sale or quintana, sox said names that were mandatory if the talks continued and the talks ended.

no ones in the cubs organization thought the sox would even talk. sox were willing to talk but acknowledged it would take more from the cubs then any other team to get the assets they wanted cause they were from town. the sox would have been dumb not to mention swarber, I think it was the additional pieces they wanted, and I think one was happ that made it an instant no go.

I am not arguing they shouldn't have traded them if they could have got a good pitcher (I do question if that was an option) I'm not arguing hes having a crap year, I am not even arguing he wont be what they thought. I do argue that there isn't enough data yet to say that hes gonna be a bust. 2 years from now he may be a terrible left fielder who hits 50hrs and drives in 120.

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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:08 pm

True.

He could also continue to be a modern day Rob Deer.  I'm going to wager that. I've seen to many Cub hype jobs flop to put much stock into another one.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by wolverine55 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:26 pm

Head Skin wrote:True.

He could also continue to be a modern day Rob Deer.  I'm going to wager that.  I've seen to many Cub hype jobs flop to put much stock into another one.

This is why I think baseball is the hardest sport to develop a team. Very hard to gauge how top-rated prospects will do at the major league level. You could put any team name in your second sentence and have a somewhat accurate statement.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:46 pm

The only two Cardinals hype jobs I can really remember that didn't pan out though we're Jim Lindeman and Bo Ryan.

No on really hypes Sox prospects because no one pays attention to them. Joe Borchard is really the only hype guy I can remember that didn't pan out. Most of their prospects have been shipped away by KW in the past decade. Maybe Gordon Beckham, but he did finish 2nd in the ROY.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by wolverine55 on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:14 pm

Bear in mind too that many of the previous "hype" jobs--i.e. Felix Pie--were emblematic of how broken the Cubs' system was. There were at most times only one prospect at a time to hype. The system is much deeper now which is while they'll be able to survive even if Schwarber does become a bust.
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Re: Schwarbs and stuff

Post by Head Skin on Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:27 pm

I had even forgotten about Pie.  They've been over hyping guys for as lon as I can recall.  Ty Griffin was the first GIANT bust I can remember out of that system.  Late 80s IIRC.

The 88 team was chock full of guys who were young, had one good year and we're never heard from again. Walton, Smith, Berryhill...
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