Spring Football

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Spring Football

Post by OldTitan on Mon May 08, 2017 1:31 pm

Howdy,

Had an interesting thought that I wanted to bounce off of you -

High School Football participation is up slightly the last couple of years overall in the nation.

However, numbers are down in the North East and much of the Midwest - Illlinois actually held steady last year after significant declines the previous 5 years.

Is it all regional? I ask that, because the other common denominator I see in states with rising football numbers is that they have spring football. Do you think that is a factor?

BTW - I'm not advocating that Illinois have spring ball - just thinking out loud.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Head Skin on Mon May 08, 2017 1:48 pm

Illinois' overall population has steeply declined the past 6 years. Is that the reason for decline of football participation?
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Coach53 on Mon May 08, 2017 1:49 pm

OldTitan wrote:Howdy,

Had an interesting thought that I wanted to bounce off of you -

High School Football participation is up slightly the last couple of years overall in the nation.

However, numbers are down in the North East and much of the Midwest - Illlinois actually held steady last year after significant declines the previous 5 years.

Is it all regional? I ask that, because the other common denominator I see in states with rising football numbers is that they have spring football. Do you think that is a factor?

BTW - I'm not advocating that Illinois have spring ball - just thinking out loud.

Having actually coached the last three years in states with spring practice I am not a fan. I would much rather see them participate in other sports and change rules so that you can do drills with a football before June 1st. In a sense it would be close to "spring ball" but not as serious.

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Re: Spring Football

Post by wolverine55 on Mon May 08, 2017 2:30 pm

In Iowa, soccer, track, tennis, and swim club are already spring sports. I think having spring football would result in us losing kids and even if not, I don't think there would be enough left after those three sports to have worthwhile practices.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Head Skin on Mon May 08, 2017 3:10 pm

I don't like the idea because I already think we do too much with football. I mean, it's already the longest sport in HS if you include June and July. Then throw in the year round lifting programs for most schools and you're asking for a big commitment out of 14-19 year old kids.

But, as I say that, schools around us demand nearly year round commitment and have booming numbers. We tried to limit what we asked of kids the past couple years to try to get more kids out and our numbers continued to nosedive. From 50+ in 2012 to 28 last fall. So, what do I know?
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Re: Spring Football

Post by wolverine55 on Mon May 08, 2017 3:36 pm

I should add that in Iowa we aren't limited by contact days; we could literally do football every day for the summer, although we chose not to. Baseball is a summer sport in Iowa, so there is still some conflict but I think our current set-up works well.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by mc140 on Mon May 08, 2017 9:27 pm

Most states Ive seen with spring football have it in May. You can start summer ball last week of May if you really want to. We used too but with all the track coaches on our staff we stopped that awhile back. Coming back from the state meet on Saturday and starting summer football on Monday was awful.

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Re: Spring Football

Post by OldTitan on Tue May 09, 2017 12:13 am

I'm not advocating for spring ball. I'm just postulating that it might have something to do with football numbers.

I actually think it has more to do with regional cultural differences, but when I looked at the numbers it was striking that every state with rising numbers had spring ball.

I'm not really interested in a lecture about plausibility versus probability and/or causation - I get it.

Believe me 25 days of summer is too much from my perspective.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by OldTitan on Tue May 09, 2017 12:19 am

One other random thought about spring ball: I don't think Division III NCAA should have spring ball.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Head Skin on Tue May 09, 2017 9:50 am

I'm not trying to lecture, I just think that when people start bringing this kind of stuff up, we as a group- football coaches- get our collective paranoia/inferiority complexes up and whether we think it's a good idea or not, we want to institute it because, by God, no one else is going to outwork us!!

Look how many people fill all 25 days or try to. Not because they really want to, but they feel pressured or obligated to.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by wolverine55 on Tue May 09, 2017 10:08 am

OldTitan wrote:One other random thought about spring ball: I don't think Division III NCAA should have spring ball.

When I played at Illinois College, we didn't have spring ball, but that has been almost 20 years ago, as much as I don't want to admit that! I see some D3 schools posting stuff about "spring ball" on twitter and Facebook but to me it looks like a whole bunch of conditioning drills. I'm not sure what the norm is in regards to D3 and spring ball.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by newcom on Tue May 09, 2017 10:50 am

High School NO way!!

D-3: my son plays at Loras College and Spring Ball last year was awful with nothing but drills and 7-7 and it felt like work.

This Year coaching staff changed their perspective and everything has been about competition in the drills with the focus on getting 7-7 basics set down and adding sets/plays as the team progresses. Practices have been more upbeat and "fun" while actually getting work done.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by OldTitan on Tue May 09, 2017 11:58 am

wolverine55 wrote:
OldTitan wrote:One other random thought about spring ball: I don't think Division III NCAA should have spring ball.

When I played at Illinois College, we didn't have spring ball, but that has been almost 20 years ago, as much as I don't want to admit that!  I see some D3 schools posting stuff about "spring ball" on twitter and Facebook but to me it looks like a whole bunch of conditioning drills.  I'm not sure what the norm is in regards to D3 and spring ball.

The DIII coaches are lobbying to allow contact during spring. I just think it is entirely unnecessary when the kids are receiving absolutely nothing for playing ball.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by lefty120 on Tue May 09, 2017 11:58 am

First I want to say it's refreshing to see some of you talk about your feelings regarding the 25 contact days in the summer. We have always used ours, or came close, more for the parents than anything else. They need to know we are doing what everyone else is doing kinda thing.

I remember the days when I started, back in 1999, 2000 etc. when we had nothing but lifting during the summer and had a 1-2 week camp at the end of July...and that was enough. Our kids would lift, then go out and throw the ball around for a little while, while the coaches stayed inside, and then they'd go be kids. I go back and watch film of our teams from those days, some were playoff teams and some weren't, but we weren't any better or worse then than teams I see today. I wish it was less than 25 days but that'll never happen for some of the reasons mentioned above.

I was fortunate to play baseball and football at Elmhurst College. I'd have never been able to do that if they had spring football. D3 should keep it as it was. To my knowledge, they can't wear pads anyway.

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Re: Spring Football

Post by OldTitan on Tue May 09, 2017 11:59 am

Head Skin wrote:I'm not trying to lecture, I just think that when people start bringing this kind of stuff up, we as a group- football coaches- get our collective paranoia/inferiority complexes up and whether we think it's a good idea or not, we want to institute it because, by God, no one else is going to outwork us!!

Look how many people fill all 25 days or try to.  Not because they really want to, but they feel pressured or obligated to.

Totally agree.

Why do you think football numbers are down in the northeast and midwest and up in the south and west?
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Re: Spring Football

Post by newcom on Tue May 09, 2017 12:20 pm

Because of the pussification of America has begun up here? Cool Razz Razz
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Bighitter11 on Tue May 09, 2017 12:55 pm

I think Football Should start 1 Week earlier than it currently does.

Also like to see Summer Contact Period Shortened to a 4-6 week period with only 10 Contact days.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by net on Tue May 09, 2017 1:30 pm

OldTitan wrote:One other random thought about spring ball: I don't think Division III NCAA should have spring ball.

they don't wear pads, so i don't really consider that spring ball.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Gridiron Guy on Tue May 09, 2017 1:35 pm

How about this for a summer schedule,
- Winter sports (BB/Wrestling) get the month of June, with 15 contact days to use
- Fall Sports get July, with 15 contact days
- The dead period stays where it is currently.

Of course, you could still have weightroom days in June as a Fall Sports program, or in July, as a winter sports program.

Baseball/Softball go all summer the way it is anyway.

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Re: Spring Football

Post by OldTitan on Tue May 09, 2017 1:47 pm

Gridiron Guy wrote:How about this for a summer schedule,
- Winter sports (BB/Wrestling) get the month of June, with 15 contact days to use
- Fall Sports get July, with 15 contact days
- The dead period stays where it is currently.

Of course, you could still have weightroom days in June as a Fall Sports program, or in July, as a winter sports program.

Baseball/Softball go all summer the way it is anyway.

I had a similar thought. I may put together a proposal.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Head Skin on Tue May 09, 2017 1:47 pm

Gridiron Guy wrote:How about this for a summer schedule,
- Winter sports (BB/Wrestling) get the month of June, with 15 contact days to use
- Fall Sports get July, with 15 contact days
- The dead period stays where it is currently.

Of course, you could still have weightroom days in June as a Fall Sports program, or in July, as a winter sports program.

Baseball/Softball go all summer the way it is anyway.
Make June & July a dead period for everything school related.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Head Skin on Tue May 09, 2017 1:54 pm

OldTitan wrote:
Head Skin wrote:I'm not trying to lecture, I just think that when people start bringing this kind of stuff up, we as a group- football coaches- get our collective paranoia/inferiority complexes up and whether we think it's a good idea or not, we want to institute it because, by God, no one else is going to outwork us!!

Look how many people fill all 25 days or try to.  Not because they really want to, but they feel pressured or obligated to.

Totally agree.

Why do you think football numbers are down in the northeast and midwest and up in the south and west?
I will preface my response by saying I think it's far deeper than football.

I think part of the decline is just the overall decline of Illinois' population.  Our school enrollment has dropped around 40 kids since 2010.  If half of those are boys and around half of them play football, that's about 10 kids less a year we even have to try to get out.  

Another part is the kind of kids most downstate schools are drawing- outside the richer "magnet" type schools- Maroa, Tolono, St Joe, Williamsville, Auburn, Tri Valley, Mahomet, Rochester, etc.  The economy has led most of the state to be populated by lower income, transients.  And most of those kids don't do extracurriculars.  Illinois, outside your few centers of wealth and some of your cities is in really bad shape.  The erosion of what used to be your bedrock football kids- middle class, two parent families- is being felt in the numbers crunch.

And then, on top of those factors, kids overall don't want to put in the effort that playing football requires.  

I will also say this- the South and the West are where a lot of the people moving from the midwest and northeast are going.  It could be that simple.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Head Skin on Tue May 09, 2017 2:00 pm

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2016/01/08/americans-are-moving-south-west-again
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Re: Spring Football

Post by Head Skin on Tue May 09, 2017 2:03 pm

lefty120 wrote:First I want to say it's refreshing to see some of you talk about your feelings regarding the 25 contact days in the summer.  We have always used ours, or came close, more for the parents than anything else.  They need to know we are doing what everyone else is doing kinda thing.  

I remember the days when I started, back in 1999, 2000 etc. when we had nothing but lifting during the summer and had a 1-2 week camp at the end of July...and that was enough.  Our kids would lift, then go out and throw the ball around for a little while, while the coaches stayed inside, and then they'd go be kids.  I go back and watch film of our teams from those days, some were playoff teams and some weren't, but we weren't any better or worse then than teams I see today.  I wish it was less than 25 days but that'll never happen for some of the reasons mentioned above.

I was fortunate to play baseball and football at Elmhurst College.  I'd have never been able to do that if they had spring football.  D3 should keep it as it was.  To my knowledge, they can't wear pads anyway.  
That's the only reason we've went to as many 7on7s in the past as we have and done some other stuff. Parents look at social media and the relentlessly self promoting "grinders" in our profession and think that's how you have to do it. And that if your aren't doing all that stuff, you're just lazy and not dedicated enough. Then, when you're not successful doing it your way they use that to come after you.
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Re: Spring Football

Post by center on Tue May 09, 2017 4:28 pm

OldTitan wrote:One other random thought about spring ball: I don't think Division III NCAA should have spring ball.

I agree 100%.  That was not why Division 3 was ever created in the first place.

To add contact to that in the spring would be ridiculous.

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Re: Spring Football

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