Bears Signings

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Re: Bears Signings

Post by 19delta on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:09 am

Horsefeather wrote:When they originally moved up to select Trubisky, I was not a fan of the pick or the process to get him.  I don't know that I am yet.  But, I also respect the balls it took for Pace to make the trade & pick.  Whether he pans out or not will be determined, but Pace obviously wanted him badly.  But it is weird that the Bears were not one of the teams showing heavy interest in him pre-draft.  And, like most here, I would have preferred Watson.

The Bears have been so bad at QB for so long... like lifetimes long... Pace has done everything he can to solidify the position.  But, he also basically signaled to Glennon that he's a 2-3 year rental til Trubisky is ready.  He's also showing Bears fans that it's going to be another couple years in a rebuild until respectability may be earned again.  But in the NFL, the QB is more important than ever.  It's the lynchpin position.  We'll see how it all comes together (or crumbles).

I don't know if Watson will be a good NFL player. It always seems that those college spread QBs get drafted and then the team puts them in an offense that takes away the things that made these QBs so great in college. I don't know how NFL coaching staffs work, but it would seem to me that if you are going to draft a guy like Watson, who was so exciting to watch in college, that high and pay him all that money that you build the offense around his strengths and not try to force a square peg into a round hole.

With that being said, I think that Watson would have been a "sexy" pick for the Bears. Guaranteed that he sells a lot more jerseys and puts a lot more butts in the seats than Trubisky will.

I think that is what makes the Trubisky pick all the more impressive. It certainly was not the "safe" pick.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by 19delta on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:16 am

OSUBucks wrote:The Bears seem to be determined to give the Browns a run for their money as the laughingstock of the NFL. They recently signed QB Mike Glennon to a 3 year deal for $18 million and draft another QB, Mitch Trubisky with their 1st round pick. The 49ers really put one over on the Bears. The Bears already had the #3 pick and Trubisky would have been there then but they gave the 49ers several picks to move up one position. I think there are several QB's in the draft better than Trubisky anyway. The Bears should have gone with defense, they really need help there. There were any number of players who could have provided immediate help.

Actually, I think the real laughingstocks of the 1st Round flew under the radar. What about Jacksonville and Carolina? In this day and age of the NFL, who the eff drafts a running back that high? Running backs are a dime a dozen. It's ridiculous to waste a top 10 pick on a position that has serviceable players throughout the draft and through free agency.

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Re: Bears Signings

Post by OSUBucks on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:55 am

19delta wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:The Bears seem to be determined to give the Browns a run for their money as the laughingstock of the NFL. They recently signed QB Mike Glennon to a 3 year deal for $18 million and draft another QB, Mitch Trubisky with their 1st round pick. The 49ers really put one over on the Bears. The Bears already had the #3 pick and Trubisky would have been there then but they gave the 49ers several picks to move up one position. I think there are several QB's in the draft better than Trubisky anyway. The Bears should have gone with defense, they really need help there. There were any number of players who could have provided immediate help.

Actually, I think the real laughingstocks of the 1st Round flew under the radar. What about Jacksonville and Carolina? In this day and age of the NFL, who the eff drafts a running back that high? Running backs are a dime a dozen. It's ridiculous to waste a top 10 pick on a position that has serviceable players throughout the draft and through free agency.


It depends on the running back. Dallas took Zeke Elliott with the #4 overall pick last year. Great pick by Dallas. Watson isn't your stereotypical spread QB in that he actually throws the ball well, including the deep ball. If Trubisky is to make an impact at the NFL level his accuracy on the deep ball has to improve. He was susceptible to making mistakes last year when pressured. As Horse said, it will take a while to get Trubisky ready, he has a total of 13 starts as a college QB going 8-5.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by 19delta on Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:15 pm

OSUBucks wrote:
19delta wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:The Bears seem to be determined to give the Browns a run for their money as the laughingstock of the NFL. They recently signed QB Mike Glennon to a 3 year deal for $18 million and draft another QB, Mitch Trubisky with their 1st round pick. The 49ers really put one over on the Bears. The Bears already had the #3 pick and Trubisky would have been there then but they gave the 49ers several picks to move up one position. I think there are several QB's in the draft better than Trubisky anyway. The Bears should have gone with defense, they really need help there. There were any number of players who could have provided immediate help.

Actually, I think the real laughingstocks of the 1st Round flew under the radar. What about Jacksonville and Carolina? In this day and age of the NFL, who the eff drafts a running back that high? Running backs are a dime a dozen. It's ridiculous to waste a top 10 pick on a position that has serviceable players throughout the draft and through free agency.


It depends on the running back. Dallas took Zeke Elliott with the #4 overall pick last year. Great pick by Dallas. Watson isn't your stereotypical spread QB in that he actually throws the ball well, including the deep ball. If Trubisky is to make an impact at the NFL level his accuracy on the deep ball has to improve. He was susceptible to making mistakes last year when pressured. As Horse said, it will take a while to get Trubisky ready, he has a total of 13 starts as a college QB going 8-5.

The Bears took Jordan Howard in what, the 5th Round? And he is arguably a better player than Elliott. Howard put up comparable stats and played behind a weaker offensive line. Imagine what Howard would have done behind the Dallas o-line. Just a dumb move by Jacksonville and Carolina, IMO.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by OSUBucks on Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:00 pm

I really like Jordan Howard. Better than Elliott? Now that there is funny. Elliott is complete, great blocker and very good receiver too.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by wolverine55 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:13 pm

It'll be interesting to see the trickle-down effect on next year's bowl season in terms of the star players sitting or playing. Most of the guys who notably sat out last year got drafted high, higher than projected in a couple of cases even. Meanwhile, Jake Butt from Michigan just got drafted by Denver at pick 145, probably at least 50 picks lower than he would have been had he not got hurt in the Orange Bowl.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by 19delta on Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:42 pm

Looking at the NFL RBs who rushed for 1,000 yards the past few seasons:

2016
Ezekiel Elliott - 4th pick (1st round)
Jordan Howard - 150th pick (5th round)
DeMarco Murray - 71st pick (3rd round)
Jay Ajayi - 149th pick (5th round)
Le'Veon Bell - 48th pick (2nd round)
LeSean McCoy - 53rd pick (2nd round)
David Johnson - 86th pick (3rd round)
LeGarrette Blount - undrafted
Devonta Freeman - 103rd pick (4th round)
Lamar Miller - 97th pick, 4th round
Mark Ingram - 28th pick (1st round)
Frank Gore - 65th pick (3rd round)

2015:
Adrian Peterson - 7th pick (1st round)
Doug Martin - 31st pick (1st round)
Todd Gurley - 10th pick (1st round)
Darren McFadden - 4th pick (1st round)
Chris Ivory - undrafted
Latavius Murray - 181st pick (6th round)

2014:
Marshawn Lynch - 12th pick (1st round)
Justin Forsett - 233rd pick (7th round)
Arian Foster - undrafted
Eddie Lacy - 61st pick (2nd round)
Jeremy Hill - 55th pick (2nd round)
Alfred Morris - 173rd pick (6th round)
Matt Forte - 44th pick (2nd round)
Jamaal Charles - 73rd pick (3rd round)

2013:
Ryan Mathews - 12th pick (1st round)
Chris Johnson - 24th pick (1st round)
Knowshon Moreno - 12th pick (1st round)
Reggie Bush - 2nd pick (1st round)

2012:
Stevan Ridley - 73rd pick (3rd round)
CJ Spiller - 9th pick (1st round)
Ray Rice - 55th pick (2nd round)
BenJarvus Green-Ellis - undrafted
Shonn Greene - 65th pick (3rd round)
Steven Jackson - 24th pick (1st round)
Ahmad Bradshaw - 250th pick (7th round)

2011:
Maurice Jones-Drew - 60th pick (2nd round)
Michael Turner - 154th pick (5th round)
Willis McGahee - 23rd pick (1st round)
Cedric Benson - 4th pick (1st round)
Beanie Wells - 31st pick (1st round)

2010:
Rashard Mendenhall - 23rd pick (1st round)
Peyton Hillis - 227th pick (7th round)

Some of these players rushed for 1,000 yards or more in multiple seasons. The obvious observation is that you don't need to expend a Top 10 pick on a running back to find a quality player at that position.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by 19delta on Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:49 pm

OSUBucks wrote:I really like Jordan Howard. Better than Elliott? Now that there is funny. Elliott is complete, great blocker and very good receiver too.

Seriously? You want to do this?

Howard had 70 fewer carries than Elliott and rushed for a better yards-per-carry average. Behind a worse offensive line. Playing with a team that couldn't throw the ball. And Howard cost the Bears far less than Elliott cost the Cowboys.

Oh, and by the way...how many playoff games did the Cowboys win with Elliott running the ball last year? The same amount that the Bears won with Howard.

So yes...Howard is the "better" player because the Bears had to give up far less to get him then the Cowboys had to give up to get Elliott.

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Re: Bears Signings

Post by 19delta on Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:28 pm

OSUBucks wrote:I really like Jordan Howard. Better than Elliott? Now that there is funny. Elliott is complete, great blocker and very good receiver too.

Elliott's receiving stats:
32 receptions for 363 yards and 1 TD.

Howard's receiving stats:
29 for 298 yards and 1 TD

So Elliott caught 3 more passes for 65 more yards than Howard. But Howard was drafted in the 5th round and Elliott was drafted in the 1st round. Who's the better value? Obviously, I think that it is Howard.

I don't know about blocking. You said Elliott is a better blocker than Howard. I don't know if that is true. But, even if it is, does that make Elliott that much more valuable than Howard? 5 rounds better?
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by wolverine55 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:29 am

Wes Lunt signed a free agent deal with the Vikings. Good for him!
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by net on Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:22 am

wolverine55 wrote:Wes Lunt signed a free agent deal with the Vikings.  Good for him!

this wins me a couple of drinks from a bet i made.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by OSUBucks on Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:45 am

19delta wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:I really like Jordan Howard. Better than Elliott? Now that there is funny. Elliott is complete, great blocker and very good receiver too.

Seriously? You want to do this?

Howard had 70 fewer carries than Elliott and rushed for a better yards-per-carry average. Behind a worse offensive line. Playing with a team that couldn't throw the ball. And Howard cost the Bears far less than Elliott cost the Cowboys.

Oh, and by the way...how many playoff games did the Cowboys win with Elliott running the ball last year? The same amount that the Bears won with Howard.

So yes...Howard is the "better" player because the Bears had to give up far less to get him then the Cowboys had to give up to get Elliott.


I'm reminded of the quote "there are lies, damned lies and statistics". You did a good job finding stats supporting your opinion that Howard is as good or better than Elliott. I'll bet you could do the same supporting your previous opinion that Urlacher was better than Butkus too. I generally agree with you in that there are better positions to use 1st round picks on than running back but I think that if you can get a potential future HOF'er at any position you go for it, especially if it addresses a need.
I saw Howard play at Indiana and was impressed and of course I've seen Elliott play many times. Elliott has an extra gear that Howard doesn't have. Elliott is a threat of taking one to the house from long distance like the 85 yard TD against Alabama in the National Semifinal. Alabama always has NFL speed and talent in their secondary and Elliott ran away from those guys. Howard can't do stuff like that. Meyer calls Elliott the best running back he's ever been around without the ball in his hands in reference to his blocking and all the other things he does well.
I watched Urlacher for years at Chicago. Obviously a freaky athlete with his speed and size. He was fast and mobile enough to be well suited to play MLB in Lovie's Tampa 2 D. Urlacher was not among the very best LB's I've ever seen when it came to disengaging himself from blocks. Often I saw him not getting off blocks quickly enough to make a play. I remember an old story about Woody Hayes preparing to play Illinois when Butkus was there. Hayes saw the Illinois game film and decided that their game plan would be to run away from Butkus all day. Hayes felt that it would just be too damn difficult to get him blocked.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by 19delta on Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:07 pm

OSUBucks wrote:
19delta wrote:
OSUBucks wrote:I really like Jordan Howard. Better than Elliott? Now that there is funny. Elliott is complete, great blocker and very good receiver too.

Seriously? You want to do this?

Howard had 70 fewer carries than Elliott and rushed for a better yards-per-carry average. Behind a worse offensive line. Playing with a team that couldn't throw the ball. And Howard cost the Bears far less than Elliott cost the Cowboys.

Oh, and by the way...how many playoff games did the Cowboys win with Elliott running the ball last year? The same amount that the Bears won with Howard.

So yes...Howard is the "better" player because the Bears had to give up far less to get him then the Cowboys had to give up to get Elliott.


I'm reminded of the quote "there are lies, damned lies and statistics". You did a good job finding stats supporting your opinion that Howard is as good or better than Elliott. I'll bet you could do the same supporting your previous opinion that Urlacher was better than Butkus too. I generally agree with you in that there are better positions to use 1st round picks on than running back but I think that if you can get a potential future HOF'er at any position you go for it, especially if it addresses a need.
I saw Howard play at Indiana and was impressed and of course I've seen Elliott play many times. Elliott has an extra gear that Howard doesn't have. Elliott is a threat of taking one to the house from long distance like the 85 yard TD against Alabama in the National Semifinal. Alabama always has NFL speed and talent in their secondary and Elliott ran away from those guys. Howard can't do stuff like that. Meyer calls Elliott the best running back he's ever been around without the ball in his hands in reference to his blocking and all the other things he does well.
I watched Urlacher for years at Chicago. Obviously a freaky athlete with his speed and size.  He was fast and mobile enough to be well suited to play MLB in Lovie's Tampa 2 D. Urlacher was not among the very best LB's I've ever seen when it came to disengaging himself from blocks.  Often I saw him not getting off blocks quickly enough to make a play. I remember an old story about Woody Hayes preparing to play Illinois when Butkus was there. Hayes saw the Illinois game film and decided that their game plan would be to run away from Butkus all day. Hayes felt that it would just be too damn difficult to get him blocked.

Lots of obfuscation.

The point is that it is dumb to draft a running back within the first half of the 1st Round, regardless of who that player is. There is very little value in doing so.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by Head Skin on Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:02 pm

Successful franchises have also proven there is very little value in trading away mid round picks to reach at a pick in the first round. Especially for a position that is not an immediate need.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by 19delta on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:18 pm

Head Skin wrote:Successful franchises have also proven there is very little value in trading away mid round picks to reach at a pick in the first round.  Especially for a position that is not an immediate need.

+1

I agree with you.

But didn't Pace make a deal on Day 2 in which he got a bunch of those picks back? Admittedly, I didn't follow it that closely. But I thought he traded down the 2nd round pick and got a bunch of mid-round picks back.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by ramblinman on Mon May 01, 2017 3:01 pm

What's the conventional wisdom when you finish the season at 3-13? Apparently, Pace thinks it is to look to free agency for immediate contributors and the draft as medium/long-term investments (risky as some of them may be).

When you finish 3-13, I think you need to draft at least one or two players who can immediately contribute. I'm just not seeing where they did that.

In their free agent acquisitions, the Bears spent heavily on the QB (Glennon and Sanchez) and TE (Sims) positions. They also spent their first two draft picks on those very same two positions. Kind of a head scratcher.
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Re: Bears Signings

Post by Head Skin on Tue May 02, 2017 3:08 pm

The Bears are such an idiotic organization.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/bears-asked-mike-glennon-soldier-field-draft-party-traded-replacement-180233682.html
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Re: Bears Signings

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